WALLACE: Good evening from the Health Education Campus of Case Western Reserve University and the Cleveland Clinic. I'm Chris Wallace of Fox News and I welcome you to the first of the 2020 Presidential Debates between President Donald J. Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden. This debate is sponsored by the Commission on Presidential debates. The Commission has designed the format, six roughly 15 minute segments with two minute answers from each candidate to the first question, then open discussion for the rest of each segment. Both campaigns have agreed to these rules. For the record, I decided the topics and the questions in each topic. I can assure you none of the questions has been shared with the Commission or the two candidates.
WALLACE: This debate is being conducted under health and safety protocols designed by the Cleveland Clinic, which is serving as the Health Security advisor to the Commission for all four debates. As a precaution, both campaigns have agreed the candidates will not shake hands at the beginning of tonight's debate. The audience here in the hall has promised to remain silent. No cheers, no boos, or other interruptions so we, and more importantly you, can focus on what the candidates have to say. No noise except right now, as we welcome the Republican nominee, President Trump, and the Democratic nominee Vice President Biden.
BIDEN: How you doing, man?
TRUMP: How are you doing?
BIDEN: I'm well.
WALLACE: Gentlemen, a lot of people been waiting for this night, so let's get going. Our first subject is the Supreme Court. President Trump, you nominated Amy Coney Barrett over the weekend to succeed the late Ruth Bader Ginsburg on the Court. You say the Constitution is clear about your obligation and the Senate's to consider a nominee to the Court. Vice President Biden, you say that this is an effort by the President and Republicans to jam through on an appointment in what you call an abuse of power. My first question to both of you tonight, why are you right in the argument you make and your opponent wrong? And where do you think a Justice Barrett would take the court? President Trump, in this first segment, you go first. Two minutes.
TRUMP: Thank you very much, Chris. I will tell you very simply. We won the election. Elections have consequences. We have the Senate, we have the White House, and we have a phenomenal nominee respected by all. Top, top academic, good in every way. Good in every way. In fact, some of her biggest endorsers are very liberal people from Notre Dame and other places. So I think she's going to be fantastic. We have plenty of time. Even if we did it after the election itself. I have a lot of time after the election, as you know. So I think that she will be outstanding. She's going to be as good as anybody that has served on that court. We really feel that. We have a professor at Notre Dame, highly respected by all, said she's the single greatest student he's ever had. He's been a professor for a long time at a great school.
TRUMP: And we won the election and therefore we have the right to choose her, and very few people knowingly would say otherwise. And by the way, the Democrats, they wouldn't even think about not doing it. The only difference is they'd try and do it faster. There's no way they would give it up. They had Merrick Garland, but the problem is they didn't have the election so they were stopped. And probably that would happen in reverse, also. Definitely would happen in reverse. So we won the election and we have the right to do it, Chris.
WALLACE: President Trump, thank you. Same question to you, Vice President Biden. You have two minutes.
BIDEN: Well, first of all, thank you for doing this and looking forward to this, Mr. President.
TRUMP: Thank you, Joe.
BIDEN: The American people have a right to have a say in who the Supreme Court nominee is and that say occurs when they vote for United States Senators and when they vote for the President of United States. They're not going to get that chance now because we're in the middle of an election already. The election has already started. Tens of thousands of people already voted and so the thing that should happen is we should wait. We should wait and see what the outcome of this election is because that's the only way the American people get to express their view is by who they elect as President and who they elect as Vice President.
BIDEN: Now, what's at stake here is the President's made it clear, he wants to get rid of the Affordable Care Act. He's been running on that, he ran on that and he's been governing on that. He's in the Supreme Court right now trying to get rid of the Affordable Care Act, which will strip 20 million people from having health insurance now, if it goes into court. And the justice, I'm not opposed to the justice, she seems like a very fine person. But she's written, before she went in the bench, which is her right, that she thinks that the Affordable Care Act is not Constitutional. The other thing that's on the court, and if it's struck down, what happens? Women's rights are fundamentally changed. Once again, a woman could pay more money because she has a pre-existing condition of pregnancy. They're able to charge women more for the same exact procedure a man gets.
BIDEN: And that ended when we, in fact, passed the Affordable Care Act, and there's a hundred million people who have pre-existing conditions and they'll be taken away as well. Those pre-existing conditions, insurance companies are going to love this. And so it's just not appropriate to do this before this election. If he wins the election and the Senate is Republican, then he goes forward. If not, we should wait until February.
TRUMP: There aren't a hundred million people with pre-existing conditions. As far as a say is concerned, the people already had their say. Okay, Justice Ginsburg said very powerfully, very strongly, at some point 10 years ago or so, she said a President and the Senate is elected for a period of time, but a President is elected for four years. We're not elected for three years. I'm not elected for three years. So we have the Senate, we have a President.
BIDEN: He's elected to the next election.
TRUMP: During that period of time, during that period of time, we have an opening. I'm not elected for three years. I'm elected for four years. Joe, the hundred million people is totally wrong. I don't know where you got that number. The bigger problem that you have is that you're going to extinguish 180 million people with their private health care, that they're very happy this.
BIDEN: That's simply not true.
TRUMP: Well, you're certainly going to socialist. You're going to socialist.
WALLACE: Gentlemen, we're now into open discussion.
BIDEN: Open discussion.
WALLACE: Open discussion, yes, I agree. Go ahead, Vice President.
BIDEN: Number one, he knows what I proposed. What I proposed is that we expand Obamacare and we increase it. We do not wipe any. And one of the big debates we had with 23 of my colleagues trying to win the nomination that I won, were saying that Biden wanted to allow people to have private insurance still. They can. They do. They will under my proposal.
TRUMP: That's not what you've said and it's not what your party is saying.
BIDEN: That is simply a lie.
TRUMP: Your party doesn't say it. Your party wants to go socialist medicine and socialist healthcare.
BIDEN: The party is me. Right now, I am the Democratic Party.
TRUMP: And they're going to dominate you, Joe. You know that.
BIDEN: I am the Democratic Party right now.
TRUMP: Not according to Harris.
BIDEN: The platform of the Democratic Party is what I, in fact, approved of, what I approved of. Now, here's the deal. The deal is that it's going to wipe out pre-existing conditions. And, by the way, the 200,000 people that have died on his watch, how many of those have survived? Well, there's seven million people that contracted COVID. What does it mean for them going forward if you strike down the Affordable Care Act?
TRUMP: Joe, you've had 308,000 military people dying because you couldn't provide them proper healthcare in the military. So don't tell me about this.
BIDEN: I'm happy to talk about this.
TRUMP: And if you were here, it wouldn't be 200, it would be two million people because you were very late on the draw. You didn't want me to ban China, which was heavily infected. You didn't want me to ban Europe.
WALLACE: All right, gentlemen, Mr. President.
TRUMP: You would have been much later, Joe, much later.
WALLACE: Mr. President.
TRUMP: We're talking about two million people.
BIDEN: You're not going to be able to shut him up.
WALLACE: Mr. President, as the moderator, we are going to talk about COVID in the next segment. But go ahead.
BIDEN: Let me finish. The point is that the President also is opposed to Roe V. Wade. That's on the ballot as well and the court, in the court, and so that's also at stake right now. And so the election is all.
TRUMP: You don't know what's on the ballot. Why is it on the ballot? Why is it on the ballot? It's not on the ballot.
BIDEN: It's on the ballot in the court.
TRUMP: I don't think so.
BIDEN: In the court.
TRUMP: There's nothing happening there.
BIDEN: Donald would you just be quiet for a minute.
TRUMP: You don't know her view on Roe V. Wade? You don't know here view.
WALLACE: Well, all right. All right. Let's talk. We've got a lot to unpack here, gentlemen. We've got a lot of time. On healthcare, and then we'll come back to Roe V. Wade.
BIDEN: All right.
WALLACE: Mr. President, the Supreme Court will hear a case a week after the election in which the Trump Administration, along with 18 state Attorney Generals are seeking to overturn Obamacare, to end Obamacare.
TRUMP: That's right.
WALLACE: You have spent the last week.
TRUMP: Because they want to give good healthcare.
WALLACE: If I may ask my question, sir.
BIDEN: Good healthcare.
WALLACE: Over the last four years, you have promised to repeal and replace Obamacare, but you have never in these four years come up with a plan, a comprehensive plan, to replace Obamacare.
TRUMP: Yes, I have. Of course, I have. The individual mandate.
WALLACE: when I finish I'm going to give an opportunity.
TRUMP: Excuse me. I got rid of the individual mandate, which was a big chunk of Obamacare.
WALLACE: That's not a comprehensive place.
TRUMP: That is absolutely a big thing. That was the worst part of Obamacare.
WALLACE: I didn't ask, sir.
TRUMP: Chris, that was the worst part of Obamacare.
WALLACE: You're debating him not me. Let me ask my question.
TRUMP: Well, I'll ask Joe. The individual mandate was the most unpopular aspect of Obamacare.
WALLACE: Mr. President.
TRUMP: I got rid of it. And we will protect people.
WALLACE: Mr. President, I'm the moderator of this debate and I would like you to let me ask my question and then you can answer.
TRUMP: Go ahead.
WALLACE: You, in the course of these four years, have never come up with a comprehensive plan to replace Obamacare, and just this last Thursday you signed a largely symbolic Executive Order to protect people with pre-existing conditions five days before this debate. So my question, sir, is what is the Trump healthcare plan?
TRUMP: Well, first of all, I guess I'm debating you, not him, but that's okay. I'm not surprised. Let me just tell you something. There's nothing symbolic. I'm cutting drug prices. I'm going with Favored Nations, which no President has the courage to do because you're going against big pharma. Drug prices will be coming down 80 or 90%. You could have done it during your 47 year period in government, but you didn't do it. Nobody's done it. So we're cutting healthcare.
WALLACE: What about pre-existing conditions?
TRUMP: All of the things that we've done.
BIDEN: He has not done healthcare.
TRUMP: I'll give you an example. Insulin, it was destroying families, destroying people, the cost. I'm getting it for so cheap it's like water, you want to know the truth. So cheap. Take a look at all of the drugs that what we're doing. Prescription drug prices, we're going to allow our Governors now to go to other countries to buy drugs because when they paid just a tiny fraction of what we do.
WALLACE: Okay, like I say, this is open discussion.
TRUMP: This is big stuff.
WALLACE: Sir, you'll be happy. I'm about to pick up on one of your points to ask the Vice President, which is, he points out that you would like to add a public option to Obamacare.
BIDEN: Yes.
WALLACE: And the argument that he makes and other Republicans make is that that is going to end private insurance.
BIDEN: It is not.
WALLACE: If I start asking the question.
TRUMP: That's not what your party says, by the way.
WALLACE: And it will end private insurance and create a government takeover of health.
BIDEN: It does not. It's only for those people who are so poor they qualify for Medicaid they can get that free in most States, except Governors who want to deny people who are poor Medicaid. Anyone who qualifies for Medicaid would automatically be enrolled in the public option. The vast majority of the American people would still not be in that option. Number one. Number two.
TRUMP: Joe, you agreed with Bernie Sanders, who's far left, on the manifesto, we call it. And that gives you socialized medicine.
BIDEN: Look, hey.
TRUMP: Are you saying you didn't agree?
BIDEN: I'm not going to listen to him. The fact of the matter is I beat Bernie Sanders.
TRUMP: Not by much.
BIDEN: I beat him by a whole hell of a lot.
TRUMP: Not by much.
BIDEN: I'm here standing facing you, old buddy.
TRUMP: If Pocahontas would have left two days early you would have lost every primary.
BIDEN: All he knows how to do.
TRUMP: On Super Tuesday, you got very lucky.
BIDEN: Look he's the deal. I got very lucky. I'm going to get very lucky tonight as well.
TRUMP: With what?
BIDEN: And tonight I'm going to make sure.
TRUMP: With what?
BIDEN: Because here's the deal, here's the deal. The fact is that everything he's saying so far is simply a lie. I'm not here to call out his lies. Everybody knows he's a liar.
TRUMP: But you agree. Joe, you're the liar. You graduated last in your class not first in your class.
BIDEN: God, I want to make sure.
WALLACE: Mr. President, can you let him finish, sir?
BIDEN: No, he doesn't know how to do that.
TRUMP: You'd be surprised. You'd be surprised. Go ahead, Joe.
BIDEN: The wrong guy, the wrong night, at the wrong time.
TRUMP: Listen, you agreed with Bernie Sanders and the manifesto.
BIDEN: There is no manifesto, number one.
WALLACE: Please let him speak, Mr. President.
BIDEN: Number two.
TRUMP: He just lost the left.
BIDEN: Number two.
TRUMP: You just lost the left. You agreed with Bernie Sanders on a plan that you absolutely agreed to and under that plan , they call it socialized medicine.
WALLACE: Mr. President.
BIDEN: I'll tell you what, he is not for any help for people needing healthcare.
TRUMP: Who is, Bernie?
BIDEN: Because he, in fact, already has costs 10 million people their healthcare that they had from their employers because of his recession. Number one. Number two, there are 20 million people getting healthcare through Obamacare now that he wants to take it away. He won't ever look you in the eye and say that's what he wants to do. Take it away.
TRUMP: No, I want to give them better healthcare at a much lower price, because Obamacare is no good.
BIDEN: He doesn't know how. He doesn't know how to do that.
TRUMP: I've already fixed it.
BIDEN: He has never offered a plan.
TRUMP: We've already fixed it to an extent. Obamacare, as you might know but probably don't, Obamacare is no good.
WALLACE: Gentlemen, you realize if you're both speaking at the same time. Let the President. Go ahead, sir.
TRUMP: Obamacare is no good. We made it better and I had a choice to make very early on. We took away the individual mandate. We guaranteed pre-existing conditions, but took away the individual mandate. Listen, this is the way it is. And that destroyed ... They shouldn't even call it Obamacare, then I had a choice to make, do I let my people run it really well or badly? If I run it badly, they'll probably blame him, but they'll blame me. But more importantly, I want to help people. Okay. I said, "You've got to run it so well." And I just had a meeting with them. They said the problem is, no matter how well you run Obamacare, it's a disaster. It's too expensive. Premiums are too high, that it doesn't work. So we do want to get rid of it. Chris, we want to get rid of that and give something that's cheaper and better.
WALLACE: I understand that, sir. But I have to give you roughly equal time.
TRUMP: Go ahead.
WALLACE: Please let the Vice President talk, sir.
TRUMP: Good.
BIDEN: He has no plan for healthcare.
TRUMP: Of course, we do.
WALLACE: Please.
BIDEN: He sends out wishful thinking. He has Executive Orders that have no power. He hasn't lowered drug costs for anybody. He's been promising a healthcare plan since he got elected. He has none, like almost everything else he talks about. He does not have a plan. He doesn't have a plan. And the fact is this man doesn't know what he's talking about..
WALLACE: All right, I have one final question for you.
BIDEN: Sure.
WALLACE: Mr. Vice President, if Senate Republicans, we were talking originally about the Supreme Court here, if Senate Republicans go ahead and confirm Justice Barrett there has been talk about ending the filibuster or even packing the court, adding to the nine justices there. You call this a distraction by the President. But, in fact, it wasn't brought up by the President. It was brought up by some of your Democratic colleagues in the Congress. So my question to you is, you have refused in the past to talk about it, are you willing to tell the American tonight whether or not you will support either ending the filibuster or packing the court?
BIDEN: Whatever position I take on that, that'll become the issue. The issue is the American people should speak. You should go out and vote. You're voting now. Vote and let your Senators know strongly how you feel.
TRUMP: Are you going to pack the court?
BIDEN: Vote now.
TRUMP: Are you going to pack the court?
BIDEN: Make sure you, in fact, let people know, your Senators.
TRUMP: He doesn't want to answer the question.
BIDEN: I'm not going to answer the question.
TRUMP: Why wouldn't you answer that question? You want to put a lot of new Supreme Court Justices. Radical left.
BIDEN: Will you shut up, man?
TRUMP: Listen, who is on your list, Joe? Who's on your list?
WALLACE: Gentlemen, I think we've ended this.
BIDEN: This is so un-Presidential.
TRUMP: He's going to pack the court. He is not going to give a list.
WALLACE: We have ended the segment. We're going to move on to the second segment.
BIDEN: That was really a productive segment, wasn't it? Keep yapping, man.
TRUMP: The people understand, Joe.
BIDEN: They sure do.
TRUMP: 47 years, you've done nothing. They're understand.
WALLACE: All right, the second subject is COVID-19, which is an awfully serious subject. So let's try to be serious about it. We have had more than seven million cases of coronavirus in the United States and more than 200,000 people have died. Even after we produce a vaccine, experts say that it could be months or even years before we come back to anything approaching normal. My question for both of you is, based on what you have said and done so far, and what you have said you would do starting in 2021, why should the American people trust you more than your opponent to deal with this public health crisis going forward? In this case, the question goes to you first, sir. Two minutes, uninterrupted.
BIDEN: Good luck. 200,000 dead. As you said, over seven million infected in the United States. We, in fact, have 4% of the world's population, 20% of the deaths. 40,000 people a day are contracting COVID. In addition to that, about between 750 and 1000 people a day are dying. When he was presented with that number, he said, "It is what it is." Well, it is what it is because you are who you are. That's why it is. The President has no plan. He hasn't laid out anything. He knew all the way back in February how serious this crisis was. He knew it was a deadly disease. What did he do? He's on tape as acknowledging he knew it. He said he didn't tell us or give people a warning of it because he didn't want to panic the American people. You don't panic. He panicked. In addition to that, what did he do?
BIDEN: He went in and we were insisting that the people we had in the ground in China should be able to go to Wuhan and determine for themselves how dangerous this was. He did not even ask Xi to do that.
TRUMP: Wrong.
BIDEN: He told us what a great job Xi was doing. He said we owe him debt of gratitude for being so transparent with us. And what did he do then? He then did nothing. He waited and waited and waited. He still doesn't have a plan.
TRUMP: Wrong.
WALLACE: Sir, it's his two minutes.
TRUMP: It's so wrong.
BIDEN: I laid out back in March, exactly what we should be doing. And I laid out again in July, what we should be doing. We should be providing all the protective gear possible. We should be providing the money the House has passed in order to be able to go out and get people the help they need to keep their businesses open. Open schools cost a lot of money. You should get out of your bunker and get out of the sand trap in your golf course and go in the Oval Office and bring together the Democrats and Republicans and fund what needs to be done now to save lives.
TRUMP: So, if we would have listened to you.
WALLACE: Wait, wait. You have two minutes, sir.
TRUMP: If we would've listened to you, the country would have been left wide open, millions of people would have died, not 200,000. And one person is too much. It's China's fault. It should have never happened. They stopped it from going in, but it was China's fault. And, by the way, when you talk about numbers, you don't know how many people died in China. You don't know how many people died in Russia. You don't know how many people died in India. They don't exactly give you a straight count, just so you understand. But if you look at what we've done, I closed it and you said, "He's xenophobic. He's a racist and he's xenophobic," because you didn't think I should have closed our country. Wait a minute.
WALLACE: Sir, it's his two minutes.
TRUMP: You didn't think we should have closed our country because you thought it was terrible. You wouldn't have closed it for another two months. By my doing it early, in fact, Dr. Fauci said, "President Trump saved thousands of lives." Many of your Democrat Governors said, "President Trump did a phenomenal job." We worked with the Governor. Oh really, go take a look. The Governors said I did a phenomenal job. Most of them said that. In fact, people that would not be necessarily on my side said that, "President Trump did a phenomenal job." We did. We got the gowns. We got the masks. We made the ventilators. You wouldn't have made ventilators. And now we're weeks away from a vaccine. We're doing therapeutics already. Fewer people are dying when they get sick. Far fewer people are dying. We've done a great job.
TRUMP: The only thing I haven't done a good job, and that's because of the fake news, no matter what you say to them, they give you a bad press on it. It's just fake news. They give you good press, they give me bad press because that's the way it is, unfortunately. But let me just say something. I don't care. I've gotten used to it. But I'll tell you, Joe, you could never have done the job that we did. You don't have it in your blood. You could've never done that, Joe.
BIDEN: I know how to do the job. I know how to get the job done.
TRUMP: Well, you didn't do very well in Swine Flu. H1-N1, you were a disaster. Your own Chief of Staff said you were a disaster.
BIDEN: 14,000 people died, not 200,000.
TRUMP: A far less lethal disease, by the way.
WALLACE: Sir, you made a point. Let him answer it.
BIDEN: And there was no one ... We didn't shut down the economy. This is his economy he shut down. The reason it's shut down is because, look, you folks at home. How many of you got up this morning and had an empty chair at the kitchen table because someone died of COVID? How many of you are in a situation where you lost your mom or dad and you couldn't even speak to them, you had a nurse holding a phone up so you could in fact say goodbye?
TRUMP: We would have lost far more people, far more people. You would have been months late. You're months behind me, Joe.
BIDEN: His own CDC Director says we could lose as many as another 200,000 people between now and the end of the year. And he said, if we just wear a mask, we can save half those numbers. Just a mask. And by the way, in terms of the whole notion of a vaccine, we're for a vaccine, but I don't trust him at all. Nor do you. I know you don't. What we trust is a scientist.
TRUMP: You don't trust Johnson & Johnson, Pfizer?
  Part 2 WALLACE: Okay, gentlemen, gentlemen. Let me move on to questions about the future because you both have touched on two of the questions I'm going to ask. Focusing on the future first, President Trump, you have repeatedly either contradicted or been at odds with some of your governments own top scientists. The week before last, the Head of the Centers for Disease Control, Dr. Redfield said it would be summer before the vaccine would become generally available to the public. You said that he was confused and mistaken. Those were your two words. But Dr. Slaoui, the head of your Operation Warp Speed, has said exactly the same thing. Are they both wrong?
TRUMP: Well, I've spoken to the companies and we can have it a lot sooner. It's a very political thing because people like this would rather make it political than save lives.
BIDEN: God.
TRUMP: It is a very political thing. I've spoken to Pfizer, I've spoken to all of the people that you have to speak to, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson, and others. They can go faster than that by a lot. It's become very political because the left ... Or I don't know if I call them left, I don't know what I call them.
WALLACE: So you're suggesting that the head of your Operation Warp Speed, Dr. Slaoui.
TRUMP: I disagree with him. No, I disagree with both of them. And he didn't say that. He said it could be there, but it could also be much sooner. I had him in my office two days ago.
WALLACE: He talked about the summer, sir, before it's generally available, just like Dr. Redfield.
TRUMP: Because he said it's a possibility that we'll have the answer before November 1st. It could also be after that.
WALLACE: I'm talking about when it's generally available, not.
TRUMP: Well, we're going to deliver it right away. We have the military all set up. Logistically, they're all set up. We have our military that delivers soldiers and they can do 200,000 a day. They're going to be delivering.
BIDEN: This is the same man who told you.
TRUMP: It's all set up.
BIDEN: ... by Easter, this would be gone away. By the warm weather, it'd be gone. Miraculous, like a miracle. And by the way, maybe you could inject some bleach in your arm, and that would take care of it. This is the same man.
TRUMP: That was said sarcastically, and you know that. That was said sarcastically.
BIDEN: So here's the deal. This man is talking about a vaccine. Every serious company is talking about maybe having a vaccine done by the end of the year, but the distribution of that vaccine will not occur until sometime beginning of the middle of next year to get it out, if we get the vaccine. And pray God we will. Pray God we will.
WALLACE: Mr. Vice President, I want to pick up.
TRUMP: You'll have the vaccine sooner than that.
WALLACE: I want to pick up on this question though. You say the public can trust the scientists, but they can't trust President Trump. In fact, you said that again tonight. Your running mate, Senator Harris, goes further, saying that public health experts quote, "Will be muzzled, will be suppressed." Given the fact that polls already show that people are concerned about the vaccine and are reluctant to take it, are you and your running mate, Senator Harris, contributing to that fear?
BIDEN: No more than the question you just asked him. You pointed out he puts pressure and disagrees with his own scientists.
WALLACE: But you're saying you can't.
BIDEN: Everybody knows.
WALLACE: Or Senator Harris is saying you can't trust the scientist.
BIDEN: Well, no, no. You can trust the scientist. She didn't say that. You can trust the.
WALLACE: She said that public health experts quote, "Will be muzzled, will be suppressed."
BIDEN: Yes. Well, that's what he's going to try to do, but there's thousands of scientists out there, like here at this great hospital that don't work for him. Their job doesn't depend on him. They're the people ... And by the way.
TRUMP: We spoke to the scientists that are in charge.
BIDEN: By the way.
TRUMP: ... they will have the vaccine very soon.
WALLACE: Let him finish.
BIDEN: Do you believe for a moment what he's telling you in light of all the lies he's told you about the whole issue relating to COVID? He still hasn't even acknowledged that he knew this was happening, knew how dangerous it was going to be back in February, and he didn't even tell you. He's on record as saying it. He panicked or he just looked at the stock market. One of the two. Because guess what? A lot of people died and a lot more are going to die unless he gets a lot smarter, a lot quicker.
WALLACE: Mr. President?
TRUMP: Did you use the word smart? So you said you went to Delaware State, but you forgot the name of your college. You didn't go to Delaware State. You graduated either the lowest or almost the lowest in your class. Don't ever use the word smart with me. Don't ever use that word.
BIDEN: Oh, give me a break.
TRUMP: Because you know what? There's nothing smart about you, Joe. 47 years you've done nothing.
BIDEN: Well, let's have this debate.
TRUMP: Let me just tell you something, Joe. If you would have had the charge of what I was put through, I had to close the greatest economy of the history of our country. And by the way, now it's being built again and it's going up fast.
WALLACE: We'll get to the economy in the next segment, sir.
TRUMP: Okay. It's going up fast. I look forward to talking about it.
WALLACE: Okay. When it comes to how the virus has been handled so far, the two of you have taken very different approaches, and this is going to affect how the virus is handled going forward by whichever of you ends up becoming the next president. I want to quickly go through several of those. Reopenings. Vice President Biden, you have been much more reluctant than President Trump about reopening the economy and schools. Why, sir?
BIDEN: Because he doesn't have a plan. If I were running it, I'd know what the plan is. You've got to provide these businesses the ability to have the money to be able to reopen with the PPE, as well as with the sanitation they need. You have to provide them classic.
TRUMP: Tell that to Nancy Pelosi.
BIDEN: Will he just shush for a minute?
TRUMP: Tell that to Nancy Pelosi, and Schumer Chuck.
BIDEN: Nancy Pelosi and Schumer, they have a plan. He won't even meet with them. The Republicans won't meet in the Senate. He sits in his golf course. Well, I mean, literally, think about it. Think about it.
TRUMP: You probably play more than I do, Joe.
WALLACE: What about this question of reopenings and the fact.
TRUMP: Well, he wants to shut down this country and I want to keep it open, and we did a great thing by shutting it down.
BIDEN: You just admitted you'd shut it down.
TRUMP: Wait a minute, Joe. Let me shut you down for a second, Joe, just for one second. He wants to shut down the country. We just went through it. We had to, because we didn't know anything about the disease. Now we've found that elderly people with heart problems and diabetes and different problems are very, very vulnerable. We learned a lot. Young children aren't, even younger people aren't. We've learned a lot, but he wants to shut it down. More people will be hurt by continuing. If you look at Pennsylvania, if you look at certain states that have been shut down, they have Democrat governors, all, one of the reasons they shut down is because they want to keep it shut down until after the election on November 3rd.
WALLACE: All right. I want to move onto another.
TRUMP: Because it's a political thing.
WALLACE: I want to move onto another subject.
BIDEN: I got to respond to that.
WALLACE: I want to move.
TRUMP: But those states.
WALLACE: Gentlemen, I want to move onto another subject.
TRUMP: Those states are not doing well that are shut down right now.
BIDEN: I got to respond to that.
TRUMP: He wants to shut down the whole country.
WALLACE: President Trump, you have begun to increasingly question the effectiveness of masks as a disease preventer. And in fact, recently you have cited the issue of waiters touching their masks and touching plates. Are you questioning the efficacy of masks?
TRUMP: No, I think masks are okay. You have to understand, if you look ... I mean, I have a mask right here. I put a mask on when I think I need it. Tonight, as an example, everybody's had a test and you've had social distancing and all of the things that you have to, but I wear masks.
BIDEN: Just like your rally.
TRUMP: ... when needed. When needed, I wear masks.
WALLACE: Okay. Let me ask.
TRUMP: I don't wear a mask like him. Every time you see him, he's got a mask. He could be speaking 200 feet away from him and he shows up with the biggest mask I've ever seen. I will say this.
WALLACE: Vice President Biden, go ahead, sir.
BIDEN: Look, the way to open businesses is give them the wherewithal to be able open. We provided money, the.
WALLACE: But I was asking you, sir, about masks.
BIDEN: Well, masks make a big difference. His own head of the CDC said if we just wore masks between now, if everybody wore a mask and social distanced between now and January, we'd probably save up to 100,000 lives. It matters. It matters.
TRUMP: And they've also said the opposite. They've also said.
BIDEN: No serious person has said the opposite. No serious person.
WALLACE: Okay. I want to ask you.
TRUMP: Dr. Fauci. Dr. Fauci said the opposite.
BIDEN: He did not say the opposite.
WALLACE: I want to ask you, we've got a little than a minute left in this segment.
TRUMP: He said very strongly, "Masks are not good." Then he changed his mind. He said, "Masks are good."
WALLACE: I want to ask.
TRUMP: I'm okay with masks. I'm not fighting masks.
WALLACE: I want to ask you both about one last subject because your different approaches has even affected the way that you have campaigned. President Trump, you're holding large rallies with crowds packed together, thousands of people.
TRUMP: Outside.
WALLACE: Outside. Yes, sir. Agreed. Vice President Biden, you are holding much smaller events with.
TRUMP: Because nobody will show up.
WALLACE: ... people with masks.
TRUMP: Well, it's true. Nobody shows up to his rallies.
WALLACE: All right. In any case, why you holding the big rallies? Why you not? You go first, sir.
TRUMP: Because people want to hear what I have to say. I mean.
WALLACE: But are not worried about us spreading disease?
TRUMP: ... I'm doing my job as a president, and I'll have 25, 35,000 people show up at airports. We use airports and hangers and we have a lot of people.
WALLACE: Are you not worried about the disease issues, sir?
TRUMP: Well, so far we have had no problem whatsoever. It's outside. That's a big difference according to the experts. We do them outside, we have tremendous crowds, as you see, and literally on 24 hours notice. And Joe does the circles and has three people someplace.
BIDEN: By the way, did you see one of the last big rallies he had? A reporter came up to him to ask him a question, he said, "No, no, no. Stand back, put on your mask, put on a mask. Have you been tested? I'm way far away from those other people." That's what he said, "I'm going to be okay." He's not worried about you. He's not worried about the people out there.
TRUMP: We've had no negative effect.
BIDEN: No negative effect. Come on.
TRUMP: We've had no negative effect, and we've had 35, 40,000 people at these rallies.
WALLACE: All right. Do you want to just quickly finish up? Because I want to move on to our next.
BIDEN: Yes, I would. He's been totally irresponsible the way in which he has handled the social distancing and people wearing masks, basically encouraged them not to. He's a fool on this.
TRUMP: If you could get the crowds, you would have done the same thing. But you can't. Nobody cares.
WALLACE: Gentlemen, can we move on to the.
TRUMP: No cares.
WALLACE: Gentlemen, can we move on to the economy?
TRUMP: Yes.
WALLACE: The economy is, I think it's fair to say, recovering faster than expected from the shutdown.
TRUMP: Much faster.
WALLACE: ... in the second quarter. The unemployment rate fell to 8.4% last month. The Federal Reserve says the hit to growth, which is going to be there, is not going to be nearly as big as they had expected. President Trump, you say we are in a V-shaped recovery. Vice President Biden, you say it's more of a K-shape. What difference does that mean to the American people in terms of the economy? President Trump, in this segment you go first.
TRUMP: So we built the greatest economy in history. We closed it down because of the China plague. When the plague came in, we closed it down, which was very hard psychologically to do. He didn't think we should close it down and he was wrong. Again, two million people would be dead now instead of ... Still, 204,000 people is too much. One person is too much. Should have never happened from China. But what happened is we closed it down and now we're reopening and we're doing record business. We had 10.4 million people in a four month period that we've put back into the workforce. That's a record the likes of which nobody's ever seen before. And he wants to close down the ... He will shut it down again. He will destroy this country.
TRUMP: A lot of people, between drugs and alcohol and depression, when you start shutting it down, you take a look at what's happening at some of your Democrat-run states where they have these tough shutdowns. And I'm telling you it's because they don't want to open it. One of them came out last week, you saw that, "Oh, we're going to open up on November 9th." Why November 9th? Because it's after the election. They think they're hurting us by keeping them closed. They're hurting people. People know what to do. They can social distance. They can wash their hands, they can wear masks. They can do whatever they want, but they got to open these states up.
TRUMP: When you look at North Carolina, when you look, and these governors are under siege, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and a couple of others, you got to open these states up. It's not fair. You're talking about almost it's like being in prison. And you look at what's going on with divorce, look at what's going on with alcoholism and drugs. It's a very, very sad thing. And he'll close down the whole country. This guy will close down the whole country and destroy our country. Our country is coming back incredibly well, setting records as it does it. We don't need somebody to come in and say, "Let's shut it down."
WALLACE: All right. Your two minutes, sir. We're now moved to you. As I said, posing the question, the president says it's a V-shape recovery, you say it's a K-shaped recovery. What's the difference?
BIDEN: The difference is millionaires and billionaires like him in the middle of the COVID crisis have done very well. Billionaires have made another $300 billion because of his profligate tax proposal, and he only focused on the market. But you folks at home, you folks living in Scranton and Claymont and all the small towns and working class towns in America, how well are you doing? This guy paid a total of $750 in taxes.
TRUMP: That's wrong.
WALLACE: Sir, wait. No. Sir.
TRUMP:.
WALLACE: Yeah, I understand. You've agreed to the two minutes, so please let him have it.
BIDEN: Do I get my time back? The fact is that he has in fact, worked on this in a way that he's going to be the first president of the United States to leave office, having fewer jobs in his administration than when he became president. Fewer jobs than when he became president. First one in American history.
BIDEN: Secondly, the people who have lost their jobs are those people who have been on the front lines. Those people who have been saving our lives, those people who have been out there dying. People who've been putting themselves in the way to make sure that we could all try to make it. And the idea that he is insisting that we go forward and open when you have almost half the states in America with a significant increase in COVID deaths and COVID cases in the United States of America, and he wants to open it up more. Why is he want to open it up? Why does he take care of the ... You can't fix the economy until you fix the COVID crisis. And he has no intention of doing anything about making it better for you all at home in terms of your health and your safety.
BIDEN: Schools. Why aren't schools open? Because it costs a lot of money to open them safely. They were going to give, his administration going to give the teachers and school students masks, and then they decided no, couldn't do that because it's not a national emergency. Not a national emergency. They've done nothing to help small businesses. Nothing. They're closing. One in six is now gone. He ought to get on the job and take care of the needs of the American people so we can open safely.
WALLACE: All right. Your time is up, sir. We are going to get to.
TRUMP: I have to respond to that.
WALLACE: Well, you both had two minutes, sir.
TRUMP: Excuse me, he made a statement.
WALLACE: And so did you.
TRUMP: No, people want their schools open. They don't want to be shut down. They don't want their state shut down. They want their restaurants. I look at New York. It's so sad what's happening in New York. It's almost like a ghost town, and I'm not sure it can ever recover what they've done to New York. People want their places open. They want to get back to their lives.
BIDEN: People want to be safe.
TRUMP: They'll be careful, but they want their schools open.
BIDEN: People want to be safe.
TRUMP: I'm the one that brought back football. By the way, I brought back Big Ten football. It was me and I'm very happy to do it.
WALLACE: All right. Let's.
TRUMP: ... and people of Ohio are very proud of me. And you know how I found out? When.
WALLACE: Gentlemen, we're going to get to your economic plans going forward in a moment, but first, Mr. President, as you well know, there's a new report that in 2016, the year you were elected president, and 2017, your first year as president, that you paid $750 a year in federal income tax each of those years. I know that you pay a lot of other taxes, but I'm asking you this specific question. Is it true that you paid $750 in federal income taxes each of those two years?
TRUMP: I paid millions of dollars in taxes, millions of dollars of income tax. And let me just tell you, there was a story in one of the papers that paid.
BIDEN: Show us your tax returns.
TRUMP: I paid $38 million one year, I paid $27 million one year.
BIDEN: Show us your tax returns.
TRUMP: You'll see it as soon as it's finished, you'll see it. You know, if you wanted to, go to the Board of Elections. There's 118 page or so report that says everything I have, every bank I have, I'm totally under leveraged because the assets are extremely good, and I built a great company.
WALLACE: Sir, I'm asking you a specific question, which is.
TRUMP: But let me tell you.
WALLACE: I understand all of that.
BIDEN: Release your tax return.
WALLACE: I understand all of that.
TRUMP: Let me.
WALLACE: No, Mr. President, I'm asking you a question. Will you tell us how much you paid in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017?
TRUMP: Millions of dollars.
WALLACE: You paid millions of dollars in.
TRUMP: Millions of dollars, yes.
WALLACE: So not 750?
TRUMP: Millions of dollars. And you'll get to see it. And you'll get to see it.
BIDEN: When?
TRUMP: But let me just tell you.
BIDEN: In ?
TRUMP: Chris, let me just say something, that it was the tax laws. I don't want to pay tax. Before I came here, I was a private developer, I was a private business people. Like every other private person, unless they're stupid, they go through the laws, and that's what it is. He passed a tax bill that gave us all these privileges for depreciation and for tax credits. We build the building and we get tax credits, like the hotel on Pennsylvania Avenue. Which by the way, was given to me by the Obama administration, if you can believe that. Now the man got fired right after that happened, but that's.
WALLACE: Vice President Biden, you want to respond?
BIDEN: Yeah, I do want to respond. Look, the tax code that put him in a position that he pays less tax than on the money a school teacher makes is because of him ... He says he's smart because he can take advantage of the tax code. And he does take advantage of the tax code. That's why I'm going to eliminate the Trump tax cuts. And I'm going to eliminate those tax cuts.
TRUMP: That's okay.
BIDEN: And make sure that we invest in the people who in fact need the help. People out there need help.
TRUMP: But why didn't you do it over the last 25 years?
BIDEN: Because you weren't president.
TRUMP: Why didn't you do it over the last 25 years?
BIDEN: Because you weren't president and screwing things up.
TRUMP: You were a Senator and.
BIDEN: You're the worst president America has ever had. Come on.
TRUMP: Hey, Joe, let me just tell you, Joe. In 47 months, I've done more than you've done in 47 years, Joe. We've done things that you never even thought of doing.
WALLACE: Okay. Gentlemen?
TRUMP: Including fixing the broken military that you gave me, including taking care of your debts.
WALLACE: Mr. President, we're talking about the economy. I'd like to ask you about your plans going forward because Mr. Vice President, your economic plan.
TRUMP: He has none.
WALLACE: ... if you were to be elected president focuses a lot on big government, big taxes, big spending. I want to focus first on the taxes. You propose more than $4 trillion over a decade in new taxes on individuals making more than $400,000 a year.
WALLACE: ... on individuals making more than $400,000 a year and on corporations. President Trump says that that kind of an increase in taxes is going to hurt the economy as it's just coming out of a recession.
BIDEN: Well, just take a look at what is the analysis done by Wall Street firms, points out that my economic plan would create 7 million more jobs than his in four years, number one. And number two, it would create an additional $1 trillion in economic growth, because it would be about buying American. The federal government spends $600 billion a year on everything from ships, to steel, to buildings and the like. And under my proposal, we're going to make sure that every penny of that has to be made by a company.
WALLACE: But respectfully, sir, I'm talking about taxes, not spending.
BIDEN: By the way, I'm going to eliminate a significant number of the taxes. I'm going to make the corporate tax 28%. It shouldn't be 21%. You have 91 companies federal, I mean, the fortune 500, who don't pay a single penny in tax making billions of dollars.
TRUMP: Why didn't you do it before, when you were vice president with Obama?
BIDEN: Because you in fact passed that, that was your tax proposal.
TRUMP: I got it done. And you know what happened?
BIDEN: Yeah, you got it done.
TRUMP: Our economy boomed like it's never boomed before.
BIDEN: The economy.
WALLACE: Mr. President.
BIDEN: Let me finish.
WALLACE: Mr. President, let me pick up on that. You would continue your free market approach, lower taxes, more deregulation, correct?
BIDEN: Not lower tax for the American people.
WALLACE: But let me.
TRUMP: Excuse me.
WALLACE: You talk about the economy booming. It turns out that in Obama's final three years as president more jobs were created, a million and a half more jobs, than in the first three years of your presidency.
TRUMP: They had the slowest economic recovery since 1929. It was the slowest recovery. Also, they took over something that was down here. All you had to do is turn on the lights and you pick up a lot. But they had the slowest economic recovery since 1929, and let me tell you about the stock market. When the stock market goes up, that means jobs. It also means 401ks. If you got in, if you ever became president with your ideas, you want to terminate my taxes. I'll tell you what, you'll lose. Half of the companies that have poured in here will leave. And plenty of companies that are already here, they'll leave for other places. They will leave and you will have a depression, the likes of which you've never seen.
BIDEN: Look.
WALLACE: Mr. Vice President.
BIDEN: ... we inherited the worst recession, short of a depression in American history. I was asked to bring it back. We were able to have an economic recovery that created the jobs you're talking about. We handed him a booming economy, he blew it.
TRUMP: It wasn't blooming.
BIDEN: He blew it.
TRUMP: He was in booming. It was the weakest recovery since 1929.
WALLACE: Wait, wait, is it fair to say he blew it when, in fact.
TRUMP: When COVID came along.
WALLACE: ... when there was record low unemployment before COVID.
BIDEN: Yeah, because what he did, even before COVID, manufacturing went in the hole. Manufacturing went in a hole.
TRUMP: Excuse me, Chris, wait.
BIDEN: ... number one. Number two.
TRUMP: Chris.
BIDEN: Number three.
TRUMP: They said it would take ... No, you're on number two.
BIDEN: No.
TRUMP: Chris, Chris. They said it would take.
BIDEN: This guy.
TRUMP: ... a miracle to bring back manufacturing. I brought back 700,000 jobs. They brought back nothing. They gave up on manufacturing.
BIDEN: We did not.
 TRUMP: ... standard fare.
BIDEN: I'm the guy that brought back the automobile industry.
TRUMP: He totally gave up on manufacturing.
WALLACE: All right, let him.
BIDEN: I was asked to bring back Chrysler and General Motors. He brought them back right here in the state of Ohio and Michigan. He blew it. They're gone. He blew it. And in fact, they're gone.
TRUMP: Ohio had the best year it's ever had last year. Michigan had the best year they've ever had.
BIDEN: That is not true.
TRUMP: Many car companies came in from Germany, from Japan, went to Michigan, went to Ohio and they didn't come in with you..
WALLACE: Mr. Vice President, go ahead.
BIDEN: And so you take a look at what he's actually done. He's done very little. His trade deals are the same way. He talks about these great trade deals. He talks about the art of the deal. China's perfected the art of the steel. We have a higher deficit with China now than we did before. We have the highest trade deficit.
TRUMP: China ate your lunch-.
BIDEN: ... with Mexico.
TRUMP: China ate your lunch, Joe. And no wonder your son goes in and he takes out billions of dollars. He takes out billions of dollars to manage. He makes millions of dollars. And also, while we're at it, why is it just out of curiosity, the mayor of Moscow's wife gave you a son three and a half million dollars?
BIDEN: That is not true.
TRUMP: What did he do to deserve it? What did he do with.
BIDEN: None of that is true.
TRUMP: ... to deserve $183,000?
WALLACE: Sir, you've asked him a question, let him answer it.
BIDEN: None of that is true.
TRUMP: Oh really, he didn't get three and a half million?
WALLACE: Mr. President.
BIDEN: Is totally.
WALLACE: Mr. President, please. You've asked a question.
 BIDEN: Totally discredited. Totally discredited. And by the way.
TRUMP: Well wait, he didn't get three and a half million dollars, Joe?
BIDEN: Mr. Vice.
TRUMP: He got three and a half million.
WALLACE: Mr. President.
TRUMP: ... dollars.
BIDEN: That is not true.
TRUMP: Oh, really?
WALLACE: Mr. President, it's an open discussion. Please.
 TRUMP: It's a fact.
BIDEN: It is not a fact.
WALLACE: Well, you have raised an issue, let the Vice President answer.
BIDEN: It's been totally discredited.
TRUMP: Did Burisma pay him 183,000 a month, with no experience in energy?
WALLACE: Mr. President.
BIDEN: My son did nothing wrong at Barisma.
TRUMP: I think he did.
WALLACE: Mr. President, let him answer..
BIDEN: He doesn't want to let me answer, because he knows I have the truth. His position has been totally thoroughly discredited.
TRUMP: By who?
BIDEN: And you can.
TRUMP: The media.
BIDEN: by everybody. Well, by the media, by our allies.
TRUMP: By the media, because they refuse to talk about it.
BIDEN: By the World Bank.
TRUMP: ... because they're embarrassed.
BIDEN: By everyone, has discredited. And matter of fact Matter of fact.
WALLACE: Mr. President, please stop.
BIDEN: Even the people who testified under oath.
TRUMP: So let me ask you this, Joe-.
WALLACE: Go ahead, I'm listening to you.
BIDEN: Even the people under.
TRUMP: He got three and a half million dollars from Moscow.
BIDEN: ... testified under oath in his administration said I did my job and I did it very well.
TRUMP: Oh, really?
BIDEN: I did it honorably.
TRUMP: I'd like to know who they are.
BIDEN: Well, I'll give you the list of the people who.
TRUMP: I'll fire them.
WALLACE: No, no. Go ahead, sir.
BIDEN: I'm sure that you've already fired most of them, because they did a good job.
TRUMP: Some people don't do a good job.
BIDEN: Well, here's the.
 WALLACE: Go ahead. You get the - Wait a minute. You get the final word, Mr..
BIDEN: Well, it's hard to get any word in with this clown. Excuse me, this person.
TRUMP: Hey, let me just tell you, Joe.
BIDEN: No, no. Mr. President.
 TRUMP: Three and a half million, Joe.
BIDEN: That is simply not true.
TRUMP: Why did he deserve three and a half million from Moscow?
BIDEN: Look, here's the deal. We want to talk about families and ethics. I don't want to do that. I mean, his family, we could talk about all night. His family's already.
TRUMP: My family.
WALLACE: No, no-.
TRUMP: My family lost a fortune by coming down and helping us with governance.
BIDEN: And that's such a.
 WALLACE: Mr. President.
TRUMP: Every single one of them lost a fortune.
BIDEN: This is not about my family or his family. It's about your family, the American people. That's not true. It doesn't want to talk about what you need. You, the American people, it's about you. That's what we're talking about here.
 WALLACE: That's the end of the segment. We're moving on.
BIDEN: He didn't take that.
WALLACE: Vice President.
TRUMP: Chris, can I be honest? It's a very important question.
BIDEN: Try to be honest.
WALLACE: No.
TRUMP: He stood up.
WALLACE: The answer to the question is no.
TRUMP: ... and the threatened Ukraine.
WALLACE: Sir.
TRUMP: ... with a billion dollars.
BIDEN: That is absolutely not true.
WALLACE: Stop. Gentlemen, I hate to raise my voice, but I - Why should I be different than the two of you? So here's the deal.
BIDEN: That's a good point.
WALLACE: We have six segments. We have ended that segment. We're going to go to the next segment. In that segment, you each are going to have two uninterrupted moments. In those two interrupted minutes, Mr. President, you can say anything you want. I'm going to ask a question about race, but if you want to answer about something else, go ahead. But I think that the country would be better served, if we allowed both people to speak with fewer interruptions. I'm appealing to you, sir, to do that.
TRUMP: Well, and him too.
WALLACE: Well, frankly, you've been doing more interrupting than he has.
TRUMP: Well, that's all right, but he does plenty.
WALLACE: Well, sir, less than.
TRUMP: He does plenty.
WALLACE: No, less than you have. Let's please continue on. The issue of rice. Vice-President Biden, you say that President Trump's response to the violence in Charlottesville three years ago, when he talked about very fine people on both sides, was what directly led you to launch this run for president.
TRUMP: Oh yeah, sure.
WALLACE: President Trump, you have often said that you believe you will have done more for Black Americans than any president with the possible exception of Abraham Lincoln.
TRUMP: That's true.
WALLACE: My question for the two of you, is why should voters trust you rather than your opponent to deal with the race issues facing this country over the next four years? Vice President Biden, you go first.
BIDEN: It's about equity and equality. It's about decency. It's about the constitution. And we have never walked away from trying to require equity for everyone, equality for the whole of America. But we've never accomplished it, but we've never walked away from it like he has done. It is true, the reason I got in the race is when those people ... Close your eyes, remember what those people look like coming out of the fields, carrying torches, their veins bulging, just spewing anti-Semitic bile and accompanied by the Ku Klux Klan. A young woman got killed and they asked the president what he thought. He said, "There were very fine people on both sides." No president's ever said anything like that..
WALLACE: It is his.
BIDEN: Now.
WALLACE: ... minute sir.
BIDEN: ... second point I'd make to you, is that when Floyd was killed, when Mr. Floyd was killed, there was a peaceful protest in front of the White House. What did he do? He came out of his bunker, had the military use tear gas on them so he could walk across to a church and hold up a Bible. And then what happened after that? The Bishop of that very church said that it was a disgrace. The general who was with him said all he ever wants to do is divide people, not unite people at all. This is a president who has used everything as a dog whistle, to try to generate racists hatred, racist division.
BIDEN: This is a man who, in fact, you talk about helping African-Americans, one in 1000 African Americans has been killed because of the coronavirus. And if he doesn't do something quickly, by the end of the year, one in 500 will have been killed. One in 500 African Americans. This man is as a savior of African-Americans? This man cares at all? This man's done virtually nothing. Look, the fact is that you have to look at what he talks about. You have to look at what he did. And what he did has been disastrous for the African-American community.
TRUMP: So.
WALLACE: President Trump, you have two minutes. Why should Americans trust you over your opponent to deal race issues?
TRUMP: You did a crime bill, 1994, where you call them super predators. African-Americans are super predators and they've never forgotten it. They've never forgotten it.
BIDEN: I've never said.
WALLACE: No, no, sir. It's his two minutes.
TRUMP: So you did that and they call you a super predator and I'm letting people out of jail now, that you have treated the African-American population community, you have treated the black community about as bad as anybody in this country. You did the 1990 ... And that's why, if you look at the polls, I'm doing better than any Republican has done in a long time, because they saw what you did. You call them super predators, and you've called them worse than that. Because you look back at your testimony over the years, you've called them a lot worse than that. As far as the church is concerned and as far as the generals are concerned, we just got the support of 250 military leaders and generals, total support. Law enforcement, almost every law enforcement group in the United States. I have Florida. I have Texas. I have Ohio. I have every ... Excuse me, Portland, the sheriff just came out today and he said, "I support President Trump."
TRUMP: I don't think you have any law enforcement. You can't even say the word law enforcement. Because if you say those words, you're going to lose all of your radical left supporters. And why aren't you saying those words, Joe? Why don't you say the words law enforcement? Because you know what? If called us in Portland, we would put out that fire in a half an hour. But they won't do it, because they're run by radical left Democrats. If you look at Chicago, if you look at any place you want to look, Seattle, they heard we were coming in the following day and they put up their hands and we got back Seattle. Minneapolis, we got it back, Joe, because we believe in law and order, but you don't. The top 10 cities and just about the top 40 cities are run by Democrats, and in many cases radical left. And they've got you wrapped around their finger, Joe, to a point where you don't want to say anything about law and order. And I'll tell you what, the people of this country want and demand law and order and you're afraid to even say it.
WALLACE: All right. I want to return to the question of race. Vice President Biden, after the grand jury in the Breonna Taylor case decided not to charge any of the police with homicide, you said it raises the question, "Whether justice could be equally applied in America." Do you believe that there is a separate but unequal system of justice for Blacks in this country?
BIDEN: Yes, there is. There's systemic injustice in this country, in education and work and in law enforcement and the way in which it's enforced. But look, the vast majority of police officers are good, decent, honorable men and women. They risk their lives every day to take care of us, but there are some bad apples. And when they occur, when they find them, they have to be sorted out. They have to be held accountable. They have to be held accountable. And what I'm going to do as President of the United States is call together an entire group of people at the White House, everything from the civil rights groups, to the police officers, to the police chiefs, and we're going to work this out.
BIDEN: We're going to work this out. So we changed the way in which we have more transparency, in when these things happen. These cops aren't happy to see what happened to George Floyd. These cops aren't happy to see what happened to Breonna Taylor. Most don't like it, but we have to have a system where people are held accountable when ... And by the way, violence in response is never appropriate, never appropriate. Peaceful protest is, violence is never appropriate.
WALLACE: All right, Mr..
TRUMP: What is peaceful protest? When they run through the middle of the town.
WALLACE: President Trump.
TRUMP: ... and burn down your stores and kill people all over the place-.
BIDEN: That is not peaceful protest.
TRUMP: No it's not, but you say it is.
WALLACE: President Trump, I'd like to continue with the issue of race. I promise we're going to get to the issue of law and order in a moment.
TRUMP: Fine.
WALLACE: This month, your administration directed federal agencies to end racial sensitivity training that addresses white privilege or critical race theory. Why did you decide to do that, to end racial sensitivity training? And do you believe that there is systemic racism in this country, sir?
TRUMP: I ended it because it's racist. I ended it because a lot of people were complaining that they were asked to do things that were absolutely insane. That it a radical revolution that was taking place in our military, in our schools, all over the place. And you know it, and so does everybody else. And he would know it.
 WALLACE: What is radical about racial sensitivity training?
TRUMP: If you were a certain person, you had no status in life. It was sort of a reversal. And if you look at the people, we were paying people hundreds of thousands of dollars to teach very bad ideas and frankly, very sick ideas. And really, they were teaching people to hate our country And I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to allow that to happen. We have to go back to the core values of this country. They were teaching people that our country is a horrible place. It's a racist place. And they were teaching people to hate our country. And I'm not going to allow that to happen.
WALLACE: Vice President Biden.
BIDEN: Nobody's doing that. He's the racist.
TRUMP: You just don't know.
BIDEN: Here's the deal. I know a lot more about this-.
WALLACE: Let him finish.
BIDEN: The fact is that there is racial insensitivity. People have to be made aware of what other people feel like, what insults them, what is demeaning to them. It's important people know. Many people don't want to hurt other people's feelings, but it makes a big difference. It makes a gigantic difference in the way a child is able to grow up and have a sense of self-esteem. It's a little bit like how this guy and his friends look down on so many people. They look down their nose on people like Irish Catholics, like me, who grow up in Scranton. They look down on people who don't have money. They look down on people who are of a different faith. They looked down on people who are a different color. In fact, we're all Americans. The only way we're going to bring this country together is bring everybody together. There's nothing we cannot do, if we do it together. We can take this on and we can defeat racism in American.
WALLACE: Vice President ... I mean, President Trump, sir.
TRUMP: During the Obama-Biden administration, there was tremendous division. There was hatred. You look at Ferguson, you look at, or you go to very ... Many places, look at Oakland. Look what happened in Oakland. Look what happened in Baltimore. Look what happened ... Frankly, it was more violent than what I'm even seeing now.
BIDEN: Oh my Lord.
TRUMP: But the reason.
BIDEN: This is ridiculous.
TRUMP: ... is that the Democrats that run these cities.
BIDEN: Absolutely ridiculous.
TRUMP: ... don't want to talk, like you, about law and order.
BIDEN: Violent crime.
TRUMP: And you still haven't mentioned. Are you in favor of law and order?
BIDEN: I'm in favor of law. You-.
TRUMP: Are you in favor of law and order?
 WALLACE: You asked a question, let him finish. Let him answer.
BIDEN: Law and order with justice, where people get treated fairly.
TRUMP: Okay.
BIDEN: And the fact of the matter is, violent crime went down 17%, 15% in our administration. It's gone up on his watch.
TRUMP: It went down much more in ours.
WALLACE: All right, we're done - Mr. President, you're going to be very happy because we're now going to talk about law and order.
TRUMP: The places we had trouble were democratic run cities.
WALLACE: That's exactly my question. There has been a dramatic increase in homicides in America this summer particularly, and you often blame that on democratic mayors and democratic governors. But in fact, there have been equivalent spikes in Republican led cities, like Tulsa and Fort Worth. So the question is, is this really a ...
WALLACE: It's like Tulsa and Fort worth. So the question is, is this really a party issue?
TRUMP: I think as a party issue, you can bring in a couple of examples but if you look at Chicago, what's going on in Chicago where a 53 people were shot and eight died shot, if you look at New York where it's going up, like nobody's ever seen anything. The numbers are going up a 100%, 150%, 200% crime, it is crazy what's going on and he doesn't want to say law and order because he can't because he'll lose his radical left supporters and once he does that, it's over with. But if he ever got to run this country and they ran it the way he would want to run it, we would have by the way our suburbs would be gone. And you would see problems like you've never seen before.
BIDEN: He wouldn't know a suburb unless you took a wrong turn.
TRUMP: Oh, I know suburbs so much that you.
WALLACE: Gentlemen wait a minute.
BIDEN: I was raised in the suburbs. This is not 1950. All these dog whistles and racism don't work anymore. Suburbs are by and large integrated. There's many people today driving their kids to soccer practice and/or black and white and Hispanic in the same car as there have been any time in the past, what really is a threat to the suburbs and their safety is his failure to deal with COVID. They're dying in the suburbs. His failure to deal with the environment, they're being flooded, they're being burned out because his refusal to do anything. That's why the suburbs are in trouble.
WALLACE: I do want to talk about this issue of law and order though. And in the joint recommendation that came from the Biden-Bernie Sanders task force, you talked about quote re-imagining policing. First of all, what does re-imagining policing mean and do you support? If I might finish the question, what does re-imagining policing mean and do you support the Black Lives Matter call for community control of policing?
BIDEN: Look, what I support are the police having the opportunity to deal with the problems they face and I'm totally opposed to defunding the police offices. As a matter of fact police, local police, the only one defunding in his budget calls for a $400 million cut in local law enforcement assistance. They need more assistance. They need when they show up for a 9-11 call to have someone with them as a psychologist or psychiatrist to keep them from having to use force and be able to talk people down. We have to have community policing like we had before where the officers get to know the people in the communities. That's when crime went down, it didn't go up. It went down. And so we have to be ...
TRUMP: That's not what they are talking about this. That's not what it is about. He's talking about defunding the police.
BIDEN: That is not true.
TRUMP: He doesn't have any law support. He has no law enforcement.
BIDEN: That's not true.
TRUMP: He has almost nothing. Oh, really, who do you have name one group that supports you name one group that came out and supported you. Go ahead. Think we have time.
BIDEN: We don't have time to do anything.
TRUMP: No, no think right now. Name one law enforcement group that came out in support of you.
WALLACE: Now, gentleman. I think I'm going to tell I'm going to take back the bottom line.
TRUMP: There aren't any.
WALLACE: And I want to get to another subject, which is the issue of protests in many cities that have turned violent in Portland, Oregon, especially we had more than a 100 straight days of protests, which I think you would agree, you talk about peaceful protests. Many of those turned into riots. Mr. Vice-president you say that people who commit crimes should be held accountable. The question I have though is as the democratic nominee, and earlier tonight, you said that you are the Democratic Party right now, have you ever called the Democratic Mayor of Portland or the Democratic Governor of Oregon and said, u201cHey, you got to stop this, bring in the National Guard, do whatever it takes, but you'd stop the days and months of violence in Portland.u201d
BIDEN: I don't hold public office. Now I am a former vice president. I've made it clear. I've made it clear in my public statements that the violence should be prosecuted. It should be prosecuted and anyone who committed it should be prosecuted.
WALLACE: But you've never called for the people ...
TRUMP: He's never done that.
WALLACE: Excuse me, sir. You had never called for the leaders in Portland and in Oregon to call and bring in the National Guard and knock off a 100 days of riots.
BIDEN: They can in fact take care of it if he just stay out of the way.
TRUMP: Oh really? I sent in the US Marshalls to get the killer of a young man in the middle of the street and they shot him for three days Portland didn't do anything. I sent in the US Marshals they took care of business.
WALLACE: Go ahead sir.
BIDEN: And by the way his own former spokesperson said, u201cRiots and chaos and violence help he cause.u201d That's what this is all about.
TRUMP: I don't know who said that.
BIDEN: I do.
TRUMP: Who?
BIDEN: I think Kellyanne Conway.
TRUMP: I don't think she said that.
BIDEN: She said that.
TRUMP: I don't think so.
BIDEN: Here's the point, the point is that that's why he keeps trying to rile everything up. He doesn't want to calm things down instead of going in and talking to people and saying, u201cLet's get everybody together. Figure out how to deal with this.u201d What's he do? He just pours gasoline in the fire constantly and every single solitary time.
WALLACE: Okay. And to end this, button up this segment I'm going to give you a minute to answer, sir. You have repeatedly criticized ...
TRUMP: Does it mean I have to answer his stuff.
WALLACE: You have repeatedly ...
TRUMP: Wait a second, you have made a statement.
WALLACE: You've been talking back and forth. I'm asking you.
TRUMP: I would love to end it.
WALLACE: You know sir if you want to switch seats we could very quickly can do that.
TRUMP: I'll send in the National Guard, it would be over. That'd be no problem. But I don't want to accept the National Guard.
WALLACE: You have repeatedly criticized the vice president for not specifically calling out Antifa and other left wing extremist groups. But are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia group and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha and as we've seen in Portland.
TRUMP: Sure, I'm willing to do that.
WALLACE: Are you prepared specifically to do it.
TRUMP: I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing not from the right wing.
WALLACE: But what are you saying?
TRUMP: I'm willing to do anything. I want to see peace.
WALLACE: Well, do it, sir.
BIDEN: Say it, do it say it.
TRUMP: What do you want to call them? Give me a name, give me a name, go ahead who do you want me to condemn.
WALLACE: White supremacist and white militia.
TRUMP: Okay, boys stand back and stand by. But I'll tell you what somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left because this is not a right wing problem this is a left wing.
BIDEN: He's own FBI Director said unlike white supremacist, Antifa is an idea not an organization.
TRUMP: Oh you got to be kidding me.
BIDEN: ... not a militia. That's what his FBI Director said.
TRUMP: Well, then you know what, he's wrong.
WALLACE: We're done, sir. Moving onto the next ...
 TRUMP: Antifa is bad.
BIDEN: Every body in your administration tells you the true, it's a bad idea. You have no idea about anything.
TRUMP: You know what, Antifa is a dangerous radical group.
WALLACE: All right, gentlemen we're now moving onto the Trump-Biden record.
TRUMP: And you ought to be careful of them, they'll over throw you.
WALLACE: I'm going to ask a question. When the president seeks a second term, it is generally a referendum on his record but vice president Biden, you'd like to quote one of your dad's sayings, which is don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative. And in this case sir you are the alternative. Looking at both of your records, I'm going to ask each of you. Why should voters elect you president over your opponent in this segment, President Trump you'll go first, two minutes.
TRUMP: Because there is never been an administration or president who has done more than I've done in a period of three and a half years. And that's despite the impeachment hoax and you so what happened today with Hillary Clinton, where it was a whole big con job. But despite going through all of these things where I had a fight, both flanks and behind me and above there has never been an administration that's done what I've done. The greatest, before COVID came in the greatest economy in history, lowest unemployment numbers, everything was good. Everything was going.
TRUMP: And by the way, there was unity going to happen. People were calling me for the first time in years, they were calling and they were saying it's time maybe and then what happened? We got hit. But now we're building it back up again. A rebuilding of the military, including Space Force and all of the other things. A fixing of the VA which was a mess under him, 308,000 people died because they didn't have proper health care. It was a mess. And we now got a 91% approval rating at the VA, our vets. We take care of our vets. But we've rebuilt our military. And I'll tell you something, some people say maybe the most important by the end of the first term I'll have approximately 300 Federal judges and Court of Appeals judges, 300 and hopefully three great Supreme Court judges, justices that is a record the likes of which very few people and one of the reasons I'll have so many judges because President Obama and him left me 128 judges to fill.
TRUMP: When you leave office, you don't leave any judges. That's like, you just don't do that. They left 128 openings and if I were a member of his party, because they have a little different philosophy, I'd say, if you left us 128 openings you can't be a good president. You can't be a good vice president but I want to thank you because it gives us almost, it'll probably be above that number. By the end of this term, 300 judges. It's a record.
WALLACE: Looking at both of your records. Why should voters elect you President as opposed to president Trump, you have two minutes uninterrupted.
BIDEN: Under this president, we become weaker, sicker, poor, more divided and more violent. When I was vice president, we inherited a recession. I was asked to fix it. I did. We left him a booming economy and he caused the recession. With regard to being weaker, the fact is that I've gone head to head with Putin and made it clear to him we're not going to take any of his stuff. He's Putin's puppy. He still refuses to even say anything to Putin about the bounty on the heads of American soldiers.
TRUMP: You son got three and a half million dollars.
BIDEN: By the way, my son ...
WALLACE: Wait a minute. Mr. President, your campaign agreed to both sides would get two minute answers, uninterrupted. Well, you're a side agreed to it and why don't you observe what your campaign agreed to as a ground rule. Okay, sir?
BIDEN: He never keeps his word.
WALLACE: No, that was a rhetorical question.
BIDEN: Can you get back 30 seconds?
WALLACE: Yes. You may have, go ahead.
BIDEN: So thirdly, we're poor. The billionaires have gotten much more wealthy by a tune of over $3 - $400 billion more just since COVID. You in the home, you got less you're in more trouble than you were before. In terms of being more violent. When we were in office there were 15% less violence in America than there is today. He's President United States. It's on his watch. And with regard to more divided the nation, it can't stay divided. We can't be this way. And speaking of my son, the way you talk about the military, the way you talk about them being losers and being and just being suckers. My son was in Iraq. He spent a year there. He got the Brown Star. He got the Conspicuous Service Medal. He was not a loser. He was a Patriot and the people left behind there were heroes.
TRUMP: Really?
BIDEN: And I resent.
TRUMP: Are you talking Hunter, are you talking about Hunter.
BIDEN: I'm talking about my son, Beau Biden, you're talking about Hunter?
TRUMP: I don't know, Beau. I know Hunter. Hunter got thrown out of the military. He was thrown out dishonorably discharged.
BIDEN: That's not true he was not dishonorably discharged.
TRUMP: For cocaine use. And he didn't have a job until you became vice president.
BIDEN: None of that is true.
TRUMP: Once you became vice president he made a fortune in Ukraine, in China, in Moscow and various other places.
BIDEN: That is not true.
TRUMP: He made a fortune and he didn't have a job.
BIDEN: My son like a lot of people at home had a drug problem. He's overtaking it. He's fixed it. He's worked on it. And I'm proud of him, I'm proud of my son.
TRUMP: But why was he given tens of millions of dollars?
BIDEN: He wasn't given tens of millions of dollars. It was all discredited.
WALLACE: We've already been through this. I think the American people would rather hear about more substantial subjects. Well, as the moderator, sir, I'm going to make a judgment call here.
TRUMP: I know but when somebody gets three and a half million dollars from the Mayor of Moscow.
BIDEN: That is not true. That report is totally discredited.
TRUMP: Why did he get it?
BIDEN: Mitt Romney on that committee said it wasn't worth taxpayer's money. That report was written for political reason.
WALLACE: I'd like to talk about climate change.
BIDEN: So would I.
WALLACE: Okay. The forest fires in the West are raging now. They have burned millions of acres. They have displaced hundreds of thousands of people. When state officials there blamed the fires on climate change. Mr. President, you said, I don't think the science knows. Over your four years, you have pulled the US out of the Paris Climate Accord. You have rolled back a number of Obama Environmental records, what do you believe about the science of climate change and what will you do in the next four years to confront it?
TRUMP: I want crystal clean water and air. I want beautiful clean air. We have now the lowest carbon ... If you look at our numbers right now, we are doing phenomenally. But I haven't destroyed our businesses. Our businesses aren't put out of commission. If you look at the Paris Accord, it was a disaster from our standpoint. And people are actually very happy about what's going on because our businesses are doing well. As far as the fires are concerned, you need forest management. In addition to everything else, the forest floors are loaded up with trees, dead trees that are years old and they're like tinder and leaves and everything else. You drop a cigarette in there the whole forest burns down. You've got to have forest management.
WALLACE: What do you believe about the science of climate change, sir?
TRUMP: I believe that we have to do everything we can to have immaculate air immaculate water and do whatever else we can that's good. We're planting a billion trees, the Billion Tree Project and it's very exciting for a lot of people.
WALLACE: You believe that human pollution, gas, greenhouse gas emissions contributes to the global warming of this planet.
TRUMP: I think a lot of things do, but I think to an extent, yes. I think to an extent, yes, but I also think we have to do better management of our forest. Every year I get the call. California's burning, California's burning. If that was cleaned, if that were, if you had forest management, good forest management, you wouldn't be getting those calls. In Europe, they live they're forest cities. They call forest cities. They maintain their forest. They manage their forest. I was with the head of a major country, it's a forest city. He said, u201cSir, we have trees that are far more, they ignite much easier than California. There shouldn't be that problem.u201d I spoke with the Governor about it. I'm getting along very well with the governor. But I said, u201cAt some point you can't every year have hundreds of thousands of acres of land just burned to the ground.u201d That's burning down because of a lack of management.
WALLACE: But sir if you believe in the science of climate change, why have you rolled back the Obama Clean Power Plan which limited carbon emissions and power plants? Why have you relaxed ...?
TRUMP: Because it was driving energy prices through the sky.
BIDEN: Why have you relaxed fuel economy standards that are going to create more pollution from cars and trucks?
TRUMP: Well, not really because what's happening is the car is much less expensive and it's a much safer car and you talk it about a tiny difference. And then what would happen because of the cost of the car you would have at least double and triple the number of cars purchased. We have the old slugs out there that are 10, 12 years old. If you did that, the car would be safer. It would be much cheaper by $3,500.
WALLACE: But in the case of California they have simply ignored that.
TRUMP: No, but you would take a lot of cars off the market because people would be able to afford a car. Now, by the way, we're going to see how that turns out. But a lot of people agree with me, many people. The car has gotten so expensive because they have computers all over the place for an extra little bit of gasoline. And I'm okay with electric cars too. I think I'm all for electric cars. I've given big incentives for electric cars but what they've done in California is just crazy.
WALLACE: All right, Vice president Biden. I'd like you to respond to the president's climate change record but I also want to ask you about a concern. You propose $2 trillion in green jobs. You talk about new limits, not abolishing, but new limits on fracking. Ending the use of fossil fuels to generate electricity by 2035 and zero none admission of greenhouse gases by 2050. The president says a lot of these things would tank the economy and cost millions of jobs.
BIDEN: He's absolutely wrong, number one. Number two, if in fact, during our administration in the recovery act, I was in charge able to bring down the cost of renewable energy to cheaper than are as cheap as coal and gas and oil. Nobody's going to build another coal fired plant in America. No one's going to build another oil fire plant in America. They're going to move to renewable energy. Number one, number two, we're going to make sure that we are able to take the federal fleet and turn it into a fleet that's run on their electric vehicles. Making sure that we can do that, we're going to put 500,000 charging stations in all of the highways that we're going to be building in the future. We're going to build a economy that in fact is going to provide for the ability of us to take 4 million buildings and make sure that they in fact are weatherized in a way that in fact will they'll emit significantly less gas and oil because the heat will not be going out. There's so many things that we can do ...
BIDEN: Gas and oil because the heat will not be going out. There's so many things that we can do now to create thousands and thousands of jobs. We can get to net zero, in terms of energy production, by 2035. Not only not costing people jobs, creating jobs, creating millions of good-paying jobs. Not 15 bucks an hour, but prevailing wage, by having a new infrastructure that in fact, is green. And the first thing I will do, I will rejoin the Paris Accord. I will join the Paris Accord because with us out of it, look what's happening. It's all falling apart. And talk about someone who has no relationship with foreign policy. The rainforests of Brazil are being torn down, are being ripped down. More carbon is absorbed in that rainforest than every bit of carbon that's emitted in the United States. Instead of doing something about that, I would be gathering up and making sure we had the countries of the world coming up with $20 billion, and say, "Here's $20 billion. Stop tearing down the forest. And If you don't, then you're going to have significant economic consequences."
WALLACE: What about the argument that President Trump basically says, that you have to balance environmental interests and economic interests? And he's drawn his line.
BIDEN: Well, he hasn't drawn a line. He wants to make sure that methane's not a problem. You can now emit more methane without it being a problem. Methane. This is a guy who says that you don't have to have mileage standards for automobiles that exist now. This is the guy who says that, the fact that.
TRUMP: Not true. Not true.
BIDEN: It's all true. And here's the deal.
TRUMP: He's talking about the Green New Deal. And it's not 2 billion or 20 billion, as you said. It's $100 trillion.
BIDEN: I'm talking about the Biden plan.
WALLACE: Let him go for a minute, and then you can go.
TRUMP: And rebuild the building.
BIDEN: No.
TRUMP: It's the dumbest.
BIDEN: That is not.
TRUMP: ... most ridiculous where two car systems are out.
BIDEN: Not true.
TRUMP: ... where they want to take out the cows too.
BIDEN: Not true.
TRUMP: That's not true either, right?
BIDEN: Not true.
TRUMP: This is a 100 trillion.
BIDEN: Simply ... Look.
TRUMP: That's more money than our country could make in 100 years.
BIDEN: That is simply not the case.
WALLACE: All right. Let me. Wait a minute, sir. I actually have studied your plan, and it includes upgrading 4 million buildings, weatherizing 2 million homes over four years, building one and a half million energy efficient homes. So the question becomes, the president is saying, I think some people who support the president would say, that sounds like it's going to cost a lot of money and hurt the economy.
BIDEN: What it's going to do, it's going to create thousands and millions of jobs. Good paying jobs.
WALLACE: Let him finish, sir.
BIDEN: He doesn't know how to do that.
TRUMP: 100 million dollars.
BIDEN: The fact is, it's going to create millions of good paying jobs, and these tax incentives for people to weatherize, which he wants to get rid of. It's going to make the economy much safer. Look how much we're paying now to deal with the hurricanes, deal with ... By the way, he has an answer for hurricanes. He said, maybe we should drop a nuclear weapon on them, and they may.
TRUMP: I never said that at all.
BIDEN: Yeah, he did say that.
TRUMP: They made it up.
BIDEN: And here's the deal.
TRUMP: You make up a lot.
BIDEN: ... we're going to be in a position where we can create hard, hard, good jobs by making sure the environment is clean, and we all are in better shape. We spend billions of dollars now, billions of dollars, on floods, hurricanes, rising seas. We're in real trouble. Look what's happened just in the Midwest with these storms that come through and wipe out entire sections and counties in Iowa. They didn't happen before. They're because of global warming. We make up 15% of the world's problem. But the rest of the world, we've got to get them to come along. That's why we have to get back into the Paris Accord.
WALLACE: All right, gentlemen.
TRUMP: Wait a minute, Chris. So why didn't he do it for 47 years? You were vice president.
BIDEN: For 47.
TRUMP: So why didn't you get the world ... China sends up real dirt into the air. Russia does. India does. They all do. We're supposed to be good. And by the way, he made a couple of statements. The Green New Deal is a hundred trillion dollars.
BIDEN: That is not my plan. The Green New Deal is not my plan..
WALLACE: Gentlemen.
TRUMP: He made a statement about the military. He said I said something about the military. He and his friends made it up, and then they went with it. I never said it.
WALLACE: Okay. Mr. Vice President.
TRUMP: He called the military stupid bastards.
BIDEN: I did not say that.
TRUMP: He said it on tape..
WALLACE: Please, sir. Stop.
TRUMP: I would never say that.
BIDEN: Play it. Play it.
WALLACE: Stop. Go ahead.
TRUMP: You're on tape.
WALLACE: Mr. Vice President answered his final question.
BIDEN: The final question is, I can't remember which of all his rantings.
WALLACE: I'm having a little trouble myself, but ...
BIDEN: Yeah.
WALLACE: And about the economy and about this question of what it's going to cost.
BIDEN: The economy.
WALLACE: The Green New Deal and the idea of what your environmental changes will do.
BIDEN: The Green New Deal will pay for itself as we move forward. We're not going to build plants that, in fact, are great polluting plants.
WALLACE: So, do you support the Green New Deal?
BIDEN: Pardon me?
WALLACE: Do you support the.
BIDEN: No, I don't support the Green New Deal.
TRUMP: Oh, you don't? Oh, well, that's a big statement.
BIDEN: I support.
TRUMP: You just lost the radical left.
BIDEN: I support the Biden plan that I put forward.
WALLACE: Okay.
BIDEN: The Biden plan, which is different than what he calls the radical Green New Deal.
WALLACE: All right, gentlemen, final segment, election integrity. As we meet tonight, millions of Americans are receiving mail-in ballots or going to vote early. How confident should we be that this will be a fair election, and what are you prepared to do over the next five plus weeks? Because it will not only be to election day, but also counting some mail-in ballots after election day. What are you prepared to do to reassure the American people that the next president will be the legitimate winner of this election. In this final segment, Mr. Vice President, you go first.
BIDEN: Prepare to let people vote. They should go to iwillvote.com, decide how they're going to vote, when they're going to vote, and what means by which they're going to vote. His own Homeland Security director, and as well as the FBI director, says that there is no evidence at all that mail-in ballots are a source of being manipulated and cheating. They said that. The fact is that there are going to be millions of people because of COVID that are going to be voting by mail-in ballots like he does, by the way. He sits behind the Resolute Desk and sends his ballot to Florida, number one. Number two, we're going to make sure that those people who want to vote in person are able to vote because there are enough poll watchers are there to make sure they can socially distance. The polls are open on time, and the polls stay open until the votes are counted. And this is all about trying to dissuade people from voting because he's trying to scare people into thinking that it's not going to be legitimate.
BIDEN: Show up and vote. You will determine the outcome of this election. Vote, vote, vote. If you're able to vote early in your state, vote early. If you're able to vote in person, vote in person. Vote whatever way is the best way for you, because you will ... He cannot stop you from being able to determine the outcome of this election. And in terms of whether or not ... When the votes are counted and they're all counted, that will be accepted. If I win, that will be accepted. If I lose, that'll be accepted. But by the way, if in fact he says, he's not sure what he's going to accept. Well, let me tell you something, it doesn't matter, because if we get the votes, it's going to be all over. He's going to go. He can't stay in power. It won't happen. It won't happen, so vote. Just make sure you understand, you have it in your control to determine what this country is going to look like the next four years. Is it going to change, or are you going to get four more years of these lies?
WALLACE: Mr. President, two minutes.
TRUMP: So when I listen to Joe talking about a transition, there has been no transition from when I won. I won that election. And if you look at crooked Hillary Clinton, if you look at all of the different people, there was no transition, because they came after me trying to do a coup. They came after me spying on my campaign. They started from the day I won, and even before I won. From the day I came down the escalator with our first lady, they were a disaster. They were a disgrace to our country, and we've caught them. We've caught them all. We've got it all on tape. We've caught them all. And by the way, you gave the idea for the Logan Act against General Flynn. You better take a look at that, because we caught you in a sense, and President Obama was sitting in the office.
TRUMP: He knew about it too. So don't tell me about a free transition. As far as the ballots are concerned, it's a disaster. A solicited ballot, okay, solicited, is okay. You're soliciting. You're asking. They send it back. You send it back. I did that. If you have an unsolicited ... They're sending millions of ballots all over the country. There's fraud. They found them in creeks. They found some, just happened to have the name Trump just the other day in a wastepaper basket. They're being sent all over the place. They sent two in a Democrat area. They sent out a thousand ballots. Everybody got two ballots. This is going to be a fraud like you've never seen. The other thing, it's nice. On November 3rd, you're watching, and you see who won the election. And I think we're going to do well because people are really happy with the job we've done.
TRUMP: But you know what? We won't know. We might not know for months because these ballots are going to be all over. Take a look at what happened in Manhattan. Take a look at what happened in New Jersey. Take a look at what happened in Virginia and other places. They're not losing 2%, 1%, which by the way is too much. An election could be won or lost with that. They're losing 30 and 40%. It's a fraud, and it's a shame. And can you imagine where they say, "You have to have your ballot in by November 10th." November 10th. That's seven days after the election, in theory, should have been announced. We have major states with that.
WALLACE: Sir.
TRUMP: ... all run by Democrats.
WALLACE: Two minutes is two minutes.
TRUMP: All run by Democrats.
WALLACE: President Trump.
TRUMP: It's a rigged election.
WALLACE: You're going to be able to continue. You have been charging for months that mail-in balloting is going to be a disaster. You say it's rigged , that it's going to lead to fraud. But in 2018, in the last midterm election, 31 million people voted mail-in voting. That was more than a quarter of all the voters that year, cast their ballots by mail. Now that millions of mail-in ballots have gone out, what are you going to do about it? And are you counting on the Supreme Court, including a Justice Barrett, to settle any dispute?
TRUMP: Yeah. I think I'm counting on them to look at the ballots, definitely. I hope we don't need them, in terms of the election itself. But for the ballots, I think so, because what's happening is incredible. I read today where at least 1% of the ballots for 2016 were invalidated. They take them. We don't like them. We don't like them. They throw them out.
WALLACE: But what are you going to do about it.
TRUMP: ... left and right.
WALLACE: There are millions of ballots going out right now. What are you going to do.
TRUMP: What you do is you go and vote. You do a solicited ballot, and that's okay.
WALLACE: No. No. I know your complaint. I'm asking you about the fact that millions of people have received.
TRUMP: You go and vote. You go and vote.
WALLACE: No. But what I'm saying is , what are you going to do about the fact that millions of people.
TRUMP: You either do, Chris, a solicited ballot, where you're sending it in, they're sending it back and you're sending. They have mailmen with lots of it. Did you see what's going on? Take a look at West Virginia, mailman selling the ballots. They're being sold. They're being dumped in rivers. This is a horrible thing for our country.
BIDEN: There is no ... There is no evidence of that.
TRUMP: This is not going to end well.
BIDEN: There is no evidence of that.
TRUMP: This is not going to end well.
WALLACE: Okay. Vice President Biden, in fact, go ahead, sir.
BIDEN: Five states have had mail-in ballots for the last decade or more. Five, including two Republican states. And you don't have to solicit the ballot. It's sent to you. It's sent to your home. What they're saying is that it has to be a postmark by election day. If it doesn't get in until the seventh, eighth, ninth, it still should be counted. He's just afraid of counting the votes.
TRUMP: You're wrong. You're wrong. I love counting the votes.
WALLACE: I want to continue with you on this Vice President Biden.
TRUMP: Chris, he's so wrong when he makes a statement like that.
WALLACE: No. Excuse me. Vice President Biden, the biggest problem, in fact, over the years with mail-in voting has not been fraud, historically. It has been that sizable numbers, sometimes hundreds of thousands of ballots are thrown out because they have not been properly filled out, or there is some other irregularity, or they missed the deadline. So the question I have is, are you concerned that the Supreme Court with a Justice Barrett will settle any dispute?
BIDEN: I am concerned that any court would settle this, because here's the deal. When you get a ballot and you fill it out, you're supposed to have an affidavit. If you didn't know, you have someone say that, this is me. You should be able to, if in fact you can verify that's you before the ballot is thrown out, that's sufficient to be able to count the ballot because someone made a mistake and not dotting the correct I. Who they voted for, testify, say who they voted for, say it's you. That is totally legitimate.
WALLACE: All right.
TRUMP: Excuse me.
WALLACE: No. No. No. I have a final. Gentlemen, I have a final question.
TRUMP: You know it can't be done. You know it can't, and already, there's been fraud.
BIDEN: Mail service delivers 185 million pieces of mail a day.
WALLACE: We can keep talking. In eight states, election workers are prohibited, currently by law, eight states, from even beginning to process ballots, even take them out of the envelopes and flatten them until election day. That means that it's likely, because there's going to be a huge increase in mail-in balloting, that we are not going to know on election night who the winner is, that it could be days. It could be weeks.
TRUMP: Could be months.
WALLACE: ... until we find out who the new president is. First for you, sir. Finally, for the vice president, and I hope neither of you will interrupt the other. Will you urge your supporters to stay calm during this extended period, not to engage in any civil unrest? And will you pledge tonight that you will not declare victory until the election has been independently certified? President Trump, you go first.
TRUMP: I'm urging my supporters to go in to the polls and watch very carefully, because that's what has to happen. I am urging them to do it. As you know, today there was a big problem. In Philadelphia, they went in to watch. They're called poll watchers, a very safe, very nice thing. They were thrown out. They weren't allowed to watch. You know why? Because bad things happen in Philadelphia. Bad things. And I am urging my people. I hope it's going to be a fair election. If it's a fair election.
WALLACE: You're urging them what?
TRUMP: ... I am 100% on board. But if I see tens of thousands of ballots being manipulated, I can't go along with that. And I'll tell you why.
WALLACE: What does that mean, not go along.
TRUMP: ... from a common sense.
WALLACE: Does that mean you're going to tell your people.
TRUMP: I'll tell you what it means.
WALLACE: ... to take to the streets?
TRUMP: It means you have a fraudulent election. You're sending out 80 million ballots.
WALLACE: And what would you do about that?
TRUMP: They're not equipped ... These people aren't equipped to handle it, number one. Number two, they cheat. They cheat. Hey, they found ballots in a wastepaper basket three days ago, and they all had the name military ballots. There were military. They all had the name Trump on them.
WALLACE: Vice President Biden.
TRUMP: You think that's good?
WALLACE: Vice President Biden, final question for you. Will you urge your supporters to stay calm while the vote is counted? And will you pledge not to declare victory until the election is independently certified?
BIDEN: Yes. And here's the deal. We count the ballots, as you pointed out. Some of these ballots in some states can't even be opened until election day. And if there's thousands of ballots, it's going to take time to do it. And by the way, our military ... They've been voting by ballots since the end of the Civil War, in effect. And that's what's going to happen. Why is it, for them, somehow not fraudulent. It's the same process. It's honest. No one has established at all that there is fraud related to mail-in ballots, that somehow it's a fraudulent process.
TRUMP: It's already been established. Take a look at Carolyn Maloney's race.
WALLACE: I asked you. You had an opportunity to respond. Go ahead. Vice President Biden, go ahead.
BIDEN: He has no idea what he's talking about. Here's the deal. The fact is, I will accept it, and he will too. You know why? Because once the winner is declared after all the ballots are counted, all the votes are counted, that'll be the end of it. That'll be the end of it. And if it's me, in fact, fine. If it's not me, I'll support the outcome. And I'll be a president, not just for the Democrats. I'll be a president for Democrats and Republicans. And this guy.
TRUMP: I want to see an honest ballot cut.
WALLACE: Gentlemen, just say that's the end of it. This is the end of this debate.
TRUMP: I want to see an honest ballot count.
WALLACE: We're going to leave it there.
TRUMP: And I think he does too.
WALLACE: ... to be continued in more debates as we go on. President Trump, Vice President Biden, it's been an interesting hour and a half. I want to thank you both for participating in the first of three debates that you have agreed to engage in. We want to thank Case Western Reserve University and the Cleveland Clinic for hosting this event. The next debate, sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates, will be one week from tomorrow, October 7th, at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City. The two vice presidential nominees, Vice President Mike Pence and Senator Kamala Harris will debate at 9:00 PM Eastern that night. We hope you watch. Until then, thank you, and good night. Thank you.

GUTHRIE: It's nothing but noise. What? Okay. All right, ladies and gentlemen, not withstanding a little, few technical difficulties, we're thrilled to have you tonight. And we are very honored by the presence of our president, Donald Trump, who is going to walk in right now. We are about 30 seconds from air, so it'll be just in time. Mr. President.

SPEAKER: This is an NBC news special presentation of Today with Savannah Guthrie.

GUTHRIE: Tonight, Donald Trump in the arena. His first prime time network appearance since falling ill with Coronavirus.

TRUMP: I'm feeling great, I don't know about you. How is everyone feeling?

GUTHRIE: With tonight's debate canceled, the President faces our questions live and hears from voters about their concerns in the battleground state of Florida.

TRUMP: It's great to be back in my home state, Florida, to make my official return to the campaign trail.

GUTHRIE: With just 19 days to go, the President makes his case.

TRUMP: My goal is to fight for you and fight for your family.

SPEAKER: From NBC News, Decision 2020, President Trump Town Hall. Live from the Perez Art Museum in Miami, here's Savannah Guthrie.

GUTHRIE: Hi everybody, and good evening. It's good to have you with us, and welcome to Miami and our town hall with President Donald Trump. And we want to say right off the top, this is not how things were supposed to go tonight. This was supposed to be a town hall debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. But after the President contracted COVID, the debate commission announced it would have to be a virtual debate because of health concerns. The President then said he would not participate in a virtual debate. At that point, Joe Biden scheduled a town hall tonight in Pennsylvania on another network, and now the President is doing the same, his own town hall with the same venue format and time as NBC's town hall with Joe Biden last week. So the two candidates go head to head tonight, though, not face to face, each in a key battleground state.

GUTHRIE: And tonight, the President will be taking questions from voters here in Miami, who we should mention are socially distanced and they're wearing masks. And I should say, this audience looks a bit like America, it's divided. Some here voted for the president in 2016 and plan to again, some support Joe Biden, and some say they are truly undecided. We're going to get a mix of questions on a range of topics, and we're going to get to those questions in a moment. But first with all of that ado, welcome, Mr. President, and thank you for being here.

TRUMP: That was very well stated, I have to say. Good job.

GUTHRIE: Thank you. We're glad you're here, we're glad you're well. We send our best to the First Lady and to Barron.

TRUMP: Thank you, thank you.

GUTHRIE: Do you have any remaining symptoms from COVID?

TRUMP: Nothing whatsoever, I'm great, I feel good. I was in North Carolina today and did a big rally with tremendous turnout, and I just feel really good. Florida, Pennsylvania, were - They said, "Let's go to the hospital." I said, "That's okay. I'm going to respond to what you say." And we went over to Walter Reed, where you have tremendous professionals. They gave me Regeneron and Remdeceiver both. And all I know is I felt good the following day, I felt really good.

GUTHRIE: Did the doctors ever tell you that they saw pneumonia on your lung scans?

TRUMP: No, but they said the lungs are a little bit different, a little bit perhaps infected, and.

GUTHRIE: Infected with?

TRUMP: I don't know. I mean, I didn't do too much asking. I really felt good. I didn't have much of a problem with the lungs. I did have a little bit of a temperature. Obviously, I felt there was something missing, and then I tested, I tested positive.

GUTHRIE: Well, let's talk about testing because there's a little bit of a, I guess, confusion about this. And I think we can clear it up.

TRUMP: Yeah, and there shouldn't be.

GUTHRIE: Your first positive test was Thursday, October 1st, okay? When was your last negative test? When did you last remember having a negative test?

TRUMP: Well, I test quite a bit, and I can tell you that before the debate, which I thought it was a very good debate, and I felt fantastically, I had no problems before.

GUTHRIE: Did you test the day of the debate?

TRUMP: I don't know, I don't even remember. I test all the time. But I can tell you this, after the debate, I guess a day or so, I think it was Thursday evening, maybe even late Thursday evening, I tested positive. That's when I first found out about it.

GUTHRIE: Well back to the debate, because the debate commission's rules, it was the honor system.

TRUMP: Yeah.

GUTHRIE: Would be that you would come with a negative test. You say you don't know if you've got a test on the day of the debate?

TRUMP: I had no problem. Again, the doctors do it. I don't ask them. I test all the time. And they.

GUTHRIE: Did you take a test, though, on the day of the debate?

TRUMP: If you ask as the doctor, they'll give you a perfect answer. But they take a test and I leave and I go about my business.

GUTHRIE: So you did you take a test on the day of the debate, I guess is the bottom line?

TRUMP: I probably did, and I took a test the day before and the day before, and I was always in great shape, and I was in great shape for the debate. And it was only after the debate, a period of time after the debate that I said, "That's interesting." And they took a test and it tested positive.

GUTHRIE: Just to button it up, do you take a test every single day?

TRUMP: No. No, but I take a lot of tests.

GUTHRIE: Okay. And you don't know if you took a test the day of the debate?

TRUMP: Possibly I did, possibly I didn't. But the doctor has very accurate information and it's not only that doctor, it's many doctors. The one thing, if you're President, you have a lot of doctors you're surrounded by. But I was in great shape for the debate. And sometime after the debate, I tested positive, then that's when they decided to, let's go.

GUTHRIE: Okay, good. I hopefully provided some clarity for folks. Let's talk about the event that was held at the White House on the Saturday before you tested positive. Subsequent to that, 13 people connected to that event tested positive. There was an outdoor reception, you've seen the pictures. There was an indoor reception. People were not wearing masks. My question to you is, at this point in the pandemic, knowing what we know, shouldn't you have known better? Shouldn't the White House know better than to hold an event like that?

TRUMP: Well, they do a lot of testing in the White House, they test everybody including me, but they test everybody. And something happened. But as far as the mask is concerned, I'm good with masks. I'm okay with masks. I tell people, wear a mask. But just the other day, they came out with a statement that 85% of the people that wear masks catch it. So this is a very.

GUTHRIE: It didn't say that. I know that study.

TRUMP: That's what I heard, and that's what I saw. And regardless, but everybody's tested and they're tested often. And I also knew that, hey, I'm President. I have to see people. I can't be in a basement. I can't be in a room. I can't be... I have to be out.

GUTHRIE: You can see people with a mask, though, right?

TRUMP: I can, but people with masks are catching it all the time. I mean, if you look at the Governor of Virginia, he was known for a mask. If you look at Thom Tillis, a great guy, he always had a mask, and they caught it.

GUTHRIE: Well, there are pictures of Thom Tillis, actually with one of Judge Barrett's kids not wearing a mask. But you know Chris Christie, he was part of your debate prep.

TRUMP: Yeah.

GUTHRIE: He was, I believe at that event. He came out tonight, he was sick, very sick. He was in the hospital for about a week.

TRUMP: Yes, I know this.

GUTHRIE: He came out tonight and said, "I was wrong not to wear a mask."

TRUMP: Well, I mean, he has to say that. I think it's great, he's a friend of mine. He's a good guy. And wrong or not wrong, you have to understand, as President, I can't be locked in a room someplace for the next year and just stay and do nothing. And every time I go into a crowd, I was with the parents of our fallen heroes. These people are the most incredible people. And they came up to me and they would hug me, and they would touch me, and I'm not to not let them do it, to be honest with you.

GUTHRIE: Now, there was an event with the gold star families the day after the Supreme Court event.

TRUMP: There was, exactly right. We had a gold star event with the most incredible people you've ever seen. And I could have chosen not to talk to them, or to keep everybody away. And you know what? I don't think that's probably where it was caught, but maybe it was.

GUTHRIE: I going to say, you bring it up, you brought it up yourself. I mean, are you trying to suggest that? Do you believe a grieving military family gave you a COVID?

TRUMP: No, I don't know where it came from, and you don't know where it came from, and the doctors don't know where it came from. But as the President, I have to be out there. I also know.

GUTHRIE: Well, there's no one that says you can't be out there, but it's just about wearing masks and having... For example, your rallies.

TRUMP: I know this.

GUTHRIE: Your rallies don't require masks.

TRUMP: I mean, let's see, Kamala. She's got people now, people have it, and I'm not blaming her. I'm not saying, "Oh, she did a terrible thing." As President, I have to be out there. I can't be in a basement. I can't be locked in a very beautiful room someplace in the White House. And I want to see the gold star families, and I want to see everybody. And I also say to people all the time, it's risky doing it. It is risky doing it.

GUTHRIE: But as President, you're right. You want to be a leader, but you also are a leader and a setter of an example. And if you're not wearing a mask when your administration is saying, "Best practice right now is wear a mask," no, it's not foolproof. But that will.

TRUMP: But many people are catching it. Many people are getting this disease that was sent to us by China, and it shouldn't have been allowed to happen. But many people are getting this. And I mean, nobody's being blamed. Everybody is working hard to get this thing out of our country, get it out of the world. Look at what's going on in Europe, massive spikes. They've done a very good job, but now you take a look today at the UK, you take a look at Spain and France and Italy. There's tremendous spikes.

GUTHRIE: But our death rate is worse than, well, not Spain, but those other countries.

TRUMP: Well, I have thing right here that will tell you exactly the opposite.

GUTHRIE: Me too.

TRUMP: The UK is up 2500%, because I knew you'd be doing this. I know you very well. The UK is up 2500%. The EU is up 722%. And the United States is down 21%.

GUTHRIE: But we have per... Our deaths per capita is among the highest of all.

TRUMP: Excess mortality.

GUTHRIE: I'm sorry?

TRUMP: Excess mortality, we're a winner on the excess mortality. And what we've done has been amazing. And we have done an amazing job. And it's rounding the corner and we have the vaccines coming, and we have the therapies coming. And I'll tell you what, one thing. When I got it, I had a choice. Do nothing, or use some of the things that we're looking at, like in this case, Regeneron. and Eli Lilly makes something that's supposed to be incredible. And I think that maybe I wouldn't be doing this discussion with you right now. We have therapies now and cures, maybe you can use the word cure, but we have therapies that are absolutely incredible, Savannah.

GUTHRIE: I want to pick up on something you just said. You said we're rounding the corner.

TRUMP: I believe we're rounding the corner, yes.

GUTHRIE: 10% of the country approximately has had COVID. That means 80%-90%, 90%, let's do the math, is still vulnerable.

TRUMP: Right, right. That's right.

GUTHRIE: There's been some talk, including from the White House lately that perhaps it approves of what's called herd immunity. That's where you basically just let young people and everybody gets sick. You try to protect the old people and those who are sick. And hopefully, it gets up to a certain level, and now we're all immune.

TRUMP: Yeah.

GUTHRIE: So let's just be clear about it. It also means more deaths. Do you support herd immunity as a strategy? Essentially, just let people get sick?

TRUMP: The cure can not be worse than the problem itself. We did the right thing. We were expected to lose 2,200,000 people, and maybe more than that. We're at 210,000 people. One person is too much, it should have never happened because of China. It happened because of China. And you have to get that and understand that. But it shouldn't have happened. But we were expected to lose, if you look at the original charts from original doctors who are respected by everybody, 2,200,00 people.

GUTHRIE: That 2 million figure, though, is if you literally did nothing.

TRUMP: We saved 2 million people.

GUTHRIE: The 2 million figure is if you did absolutely nothing, it would be 2 million. The question is, should the deaths be better than 200,000, when.

TRUMP: I don't know, let me tell you what is happening. I left North Carolina, which I love. I left Pennsylvania. We won a big case in Michigan because that governor has a lockdown where nobody but her husband can do anything. He can go boating and do whatever he wants, but nobody else can. The fact is we're winning all these cases because it's unconstitutional what they're doing. And I think they're doing it for political reasons. But the fact is the cure, you can't let this continue to go on with the lockdowns. And I believe that on November 4th, you're going to have a lot of these governors.

TRUMP: Look at what's happening to New York. New York is a mess. They lost almost 40,000 people. They have a lockdown like you've never seen. Now they're open, it's like a ghost town. And Savannah, it's very important. People are leaving New York by the thousands, and you're going to have a hard time ever building it up again. So that cure, that so called cure that you talk about, it can't be worse than the problem. The problem is a bad problem.

GUTHRIE: We've got more questions.

TRUMP: ... than the problem. The problem is a bad problem.

GUTHRIE: We've got more questions on COVID.

TRUMP: Okay, fine.

GUTHRIE: ... so let's drop it, for now. We were supposed to, as mentioned, be watching you on a debate stage right now. We're not doing that, so let's clear up a few things from the last one. You were asked point blank to denounce white supremacy. In the moment, you didn't. You asked some follow up questions. "Who, specifically?" A couple of days later, on a different show.

TRUMP: Oh, you always do this.

GUTHRIE: ... you denounced white supremacy.

TRUMP: No, you always do this.

GUTHRIE: My question to you is.

TRUMP: You've done this to me, and everybody.

GUTHRIE: ... why does it seem like.

TRUMP: I denounce white supremacy. Okay?

GUTHRIE: You did, two days later.

TRUMP: I've denounced white supremacy, for years, but you always do it. You always start off with the question. You didn't ask Joe Biden, whether or not he denounces Antifa. I watched him on the same basic show with Lester Holt, and he was asking questions like Biden was a child.

GUTHRIE: Well, so this is a little bit of a dodge.

TRUMP: So, are you ready? Are you... Wait. Are you listening? I denounce white supremacy.

GUTHRIE: Okay.

TRUMP: What's your next question?

GUTHRIE: Do you feel, it feels sometimes you're hesitant to do so, like you wait a beat.

TRUMP: Hesitant? Here we go again. Every time... In fact, my people came, "I'm sure they'll ask you the white supremacy question." I denounce white supremacy.

GUTHRIE: Okay.

TRUMP: And frankly, you want to know something? I denounce Antifa, and I denounce these people on the left that are burning down our cities, that are run by Democrats who don't know what they're doing.

GUTHRIE: All right, while we're denouncing, let me ask you about QAnon. It is this theory that Democrats are a satanic pedophile ring and that you are the savior, of that. Now can you just, once and for all, state that that is completely not true, and.

TRUMP: So, I know .

GUTHRIE: ... disavow QAnon.

TRUMP: Yeah.

GUTHRIE: ... in its entirety?

TRUMP: I know nothing about QAnon.

GUTHRIE: I just told you.

TRUMP: I know very little. You told me, but what you tell me, doesn't necessarily make it fact. I hate to say that. I know nothing about it. I do know they are very much against pedophilia. They fight it very hard. But I know nothing about it. If you'd like me to.

GUTHRIE: They believe that it is a Satanic cult run by the deep state.

TRUMP: ... study the subject. I'll tell you what I do know about. I know about Antifa, and I know about the radical left, and I know how violent they are and how vicious they are. And I know how they are burning down cities run by Democrats, not run by Republicans.

GUTHRIE: Republican Senator Ben Sasse said, quote, "QAnon is nuts and real leaders call conspiracy theories, conspiracy theories."

TRUMP: He may be right.

GUTHRIE: Why not just say, it's crazy and not true?

TRUMP: Can I be honest? He may be right. I just don't know about QAnon.

GUTHRIE: You do know.

TRUMP: I don't know. No, I don't know. I don't know. You tell me all about it.

GUTHRIE: Let me ask you another thing.

TRUMP: Let's waste the whole show. You start off with white supremacy. I denounce it. You start off with something else. Let's go. Keep asking me these questions. But let me just.

GUTHRIE: Okay, I do have one more in this vein.

TRUMP: ... let me just tell you. What I do hear about it, is they are very strongly against pedophilia. And I agree with that. I mean, I do agree with that.

GUTHRIE: Okay.

TRUMP: ... and I agree with it very strongly.

GUTHRIE: But there's not a Satanic pedophile cult being run by.

TRUMP: I have no idea. I know nothing about them.

GUTHRIE: You don't know that? Okay.

TRUMP: No, I don't know that.

GUTHRIE: You, just this week.

TRUMP: And neither do you, know that.

GUTHRIE: Okay. Just this week, you retweeted.

TRUMP: Why aren't you asking me about Antifa? Why aren't you asking me about the radical left?

GUTHRIE: Because you just, because you're volunteering it.

TRUMP: Why aren't you asking Joe Biden questions about, why doesn't he condemn Antifa? Why does he say it doesn't exist?

GUTHRIE: Because you're here, before me.

TRUMP: Antifa, no, excuse me. That's so cute. Antifa exists. They're vicious, they're violent. They kill people, and they're burning down our cities. And they happen to be radical left.

GUTHRIE: Just this week, you retweeted to your 87 million followers, a conspiracy theory that Joe Biden orchestrated to have SEAL Team Six, the Navy SEAL Team Six, killed to cover up the fake death of Bin Laden. Now, why would you send a lie like that to your followers?

TRUMP: I know nothing about it, can I .

GUTHRIE: You retweeted it.

TRUMP: That was a retweet. That was an opinion of somebody.

GUTHRIE: But.

TRUMP: .... and that was a retweet. I'll put it out there. People can decide for themselves. I don't take a position.

GUTHRIE: I don't get that, you're the President. You're not like, someone's crazy uncle who can just.

TRUMP: No, no. No, no.

GUTHRIE: ... retweet, whatever.

TRUMP: That was a retweet. And I do a lot of retweets. And frankly, because the media is so fake, and so corrupt, if I didn't have social media... I don't call it Twitter, I call it social media. I wouldn't be able to get the word out. And the word is.

GUTHRIE: Well, the word is false.

TRUMP: ... and you know what the word is? The word is very simple. We're building our country, stronger and better than it's ever been before.

GUTHRIE: Let's stop.

TRUMP: And that's what's happening. And everybody knows it.

GUTHRIE: Okay, we've got a bunch of questions for you.

TRUMP: You know what else the word is? We're winning in a lot of states.

GUTHRIE: Okay.

TRUMP: We're winning in a lot of States. You're going to see that.

GUTHRIE: Well, let me ask... Okay. I'm glad you brought up the election, because I do want to ask about that. That's another kind of leftover item. A lot of people have asked you, will you accept a peaceful transfer of power? You have said, repeatedly, "The only way we lose this election is, if it is rigged." Now, that is simply not true. The fact is, either candidate can lose fair and square, without ballot fraud.

TRUMP: Sure, they can. And do you know what?

GUTHRIE: So, will you accept the results of the election?

TRUMP: Win or lose, that's the way I want it to be. But when I see thousands of ballots, right? Unsolicited ballots, being given out by the millions, and thousands of them are dumped in dumpsters. And when you see ballots with the name Trump, military ballots, from our great military. And they're dumped in garbage cans.

GUTHRIE: That is a handful... We could go all night, which we won't.

TRUMP: No, no, it's happening every day.

GUTHRIE: But, we could go all night, one by one. A single case, a single day. You're talking about 150 million votes. Your own FBI director says, there is no evidence of widespread fraud.

TRUMP: Oh, really? Well, then he's not doing a very good job. All you have to do is pick up the papers every day. 50,000 in Ohio, the great state of Ohio. 50,000 in another location, I think North Carolina. 500,000 applications in Virginia. No, no, there's a tremendous problem.

TRUMP: But let me just tell you, they talk about the peaceful transfer, right? They spied on my campaign and they got caught. And they spied heavily, on my campaign. And they tried to take down a duly elected sitting president. And then, they talk about, "Will you accept a peaceful transfer?" And the answer is, yes, I will. But I want it to be an honest election. And so does everybody else. When I see thousands of ballots dumped in a garbage can, and they happen to have my name on it? I'm not happy about that.

GUTHRIE: Okay, but just... Those are case, there is no, there is in fact, no evidence of widespread fraud. And you are sowing doubt about our democracy.

TRUMP: Could I ask you, how can you say that?

GUTHRIE: Our democracy.

TRUMP: How can you say that? You do read newspapers?

GUTHRIE: I do.

TRUMP: You do watch the news?

GUTHRIE: Yes, I do.

TRUMP: I know you read the news, but do you watch it?

GUTHRIE: I do.

TRUMP: Because, every day, they're talking about ballots that are corrupt, that are fraudulent.

GUTHRIE: And millions that are.

TRUMP: Sure.

GUTHRIE: ... being processed right now.

TRUMP: Sure, sure. But you can win a race... Take a look at me. You can win a race by 1%.

GUTHRIE: So why are you laying the groundwork for that, right now?

TRUMP: I'm not, I don't want that to happen.

GUTHRIE: It's like, if I go play tennis with my husband and I say, " My ankle is hurting right now."

TRUMP: You know what? I don't want that to happen. Savannah. I want it to be clean.

GUTHRIE: Okay.

TRUMP: And I want... I really feel we're going to win, but I want this to be clean.

GUTHRIE: Let's get to questions.

TRUMP: But it's sort of ironic that you, and them, talk about the peaceful transfer when I spent three and a half years fighting off these maniacs. And now, it turns out, everything's there. That they were the ones that dealt with Russia, and it's too bad.

GUTHRIE: Okay.

TRUMP: Peaceful transfer, I absolutely want that. But ideally, I don't want to transfer, because I want to win.

GUTHRIE: Yes. And I think that, your words will probably reassure some folks. Let's get to our first voter. We've got Jacqueline Lugo. Now she is, I told you, this audience is truly split between y'all. You are leaning Biden, she voted for Clinton in 2016. She's registered as an Independent. Jacqueline, what's your question for the President? And hold the mic up close, and take off your mic, because it's hard to hear, out here.

TRUMP: Sure.

LUGO: Good evening.

TRUMP: How are you?

LUGO: Welcome to Miami.

TRUMP: Thank you very much, it's beautiful.

LUGO: Mr. President, if you knew COVID-19, as you told Bob Woodward in February.

TRUMP: As what?

LUGO: As you told Bob Woodward in February, was airborne and deadlier than the flu, why did you only put in place a travel ban from China, and not put in place other measures mitigating the spread of COVID-19, potentially saving tens of thousands of American lives?

TRUMP: Well, I did put it in very early, as you know, Joe Biden was two months behind me, and he called me xenophobic and racist and everything else, because I put it in. And it turned out that I was 100% right. I also put it on Europe, very early, because I saw there was a lot of infection in Europe. And it's sort of an amazing question. And I appreciate the question, and respect the question, but the news doesn't get out the right answer.

TRUMP: Because I put on a travel ban far earlier than Dr. Fauci thought it was necessary. Who I like. Far earlier than the scientists... I was actually the only one that wanted to put it on. And I did it, actually against the advice of a lot of people, including Nancy Pelosi who had no clue what she was doing. And, Biden.

TRUMP: When I put on the travel ban... You know, I put it on in January. The end of January. When I put on the travel ban Joe Biden, and others, said, "This is ridiculous. You don't do that." Well, Dr. Fauci said, I saved thousands and thousands of lives.

GUTHRIE: Did you .

TRUMP: I was early, I was extremely early, when I put on the travel ban.

GUTHRIE: Can I ask you, did your National Security Advisor, on January 28th in the Oval Office, warn you that this would be the greatest national security risk of your administration?

TRUMP: I read that, but no, he didn't.

GUTHRIE: He didn't say it, or you don't remember?

TRUMP: I read it... I read it, someplace. Maybe Woodward said it, or something. But no, he did not say that. But, I knew it was a big threat. At the same time, I don't want to panic this country. I don't want to go out and say, "Everybody's going to die. Everybody's going to-"

GUTHRIE: Isn't there a middle ground?

TRUMP: Okay?

GUTHRIE: You don't have to mislead.

TRUMP: No, there's not a middle ground.

GUTHRIE: ... but you can.

TRUMP: No, no. No. There's not a middle ground. You have to be safe. You have to be vigilant, and you have to be smart.

GUTHRIE: You're going to like this next couple of voters.

TRUMP: Okay. Good.

GUTHRIE: It's a mom and a daughter. Mom, Barbara voted for you in 2016. She's leaning to vote for you again. Now, her daughter was too young to vote last time, she's going to vote for her first time in a presidential campaign. And she is leaning, Biden. So imagine the dinner table at their house. Okay?

TRUMP: We'll talk you out of it.

GUTHRIE: So Barbara, why don't you go first, and ask your question.

TRUMP: Miami.

GUTHRIE: Thank you.

BPENA: Mr. Trump, as a frontline ER doctor, working through the coronavirus pandemic.

TRUMP: Right.

BPENA: ... I know firsthand, and I've seen that many hospitals throughout the United States, are suffering financial hardships. These economic effects are trickling down to the frontline workers.

TRUMP: Right.

BPENA: We are being... Across the country, frontline workers are being fired, they're being furloughed. Our salaries are being cut, and this is also happening another economic sectors as well, including the travel industry and hospitality.

TRUMP: Right.

BPENA: My question to you is, how are you going to get the United States back on track, both in terms of the economy and the pandemic?

TRUMP: So, it's happening. We just set a record, 11.4 million jobs. We are going to have a phenomenal third quarter, which will be announced on November 1st, just prior to the big November 3rd day, where I think you're going to see a red wave. But we're going to have a tremendous announcement. I believe. I mean, we're going to find out, but GDP is going through the roof. Jobs, real estate, houses. So many things are happening.

TRUMP: So, people were saying, we're going to have a 42% unemployment. Look, this was a thing that came into our country and it happened a hundred, more than a hundred years ago, and it happened now. They were talking about a 42% unemployment rate.

GUTHRIE: Who was talking about that?

TRUMP: It came out, it just came out.

GUTHRIE: I heard, 20%.

TRUMP: ... at 7.8% unemployment, and people can't even believe it. Our economy is going to be... Next year, if we don't have somebody that raises taxes and quadruples taxes, which they want to do, and it kills everything. Our economy is going to be phenomenal, next year. We're going to have a phenomenal...

TRUMP: And, I'll tell you, Savannah. We had the greatest economy in the history of our country last year, including the state of Florida, where we are now. In Pennsylvania, in North Carolina, in Ohio, every place. We had the greatest economy we ever had. We had to close it down, we saved two million lives. We're opening it up. We have a V-shape and it's coming back. It's coming back very fast.

TRUMP: One other thing, we really helped the hospitals. We've sent billions and billions of dollars to the hospitals. In addition, hundreds of millions of masks and gowns. And we went into the ventilator business, because this country was not equipped with ventilators. And I'm not blaming anybody for it. But we're now making thousands of ventilators a month, and we have all we can use. We're sending them all over the world, because the world needs them. So, they've worked very hard and really very, very effectively. Thank you. Great question.

GUTHRIE: Let's talk to Isabella, and put the mic close to your mouth. Okay, go ahead.

IPENA: Mr. President, my parents are, as you heard, both frontline healthcare workers. And I've seen the physical and the mental toll that this pandemic has taken on them, firsthand. As well as the exacerbation of coronavirus, due to Americans who are not wearing masks or participating in social distancing. After contracting COVID-19 yourself, has your opinion changed on the importance of mask wearing?

TRUMP: No, because I was okay with the masks. I was good with it, but I've heard many different stories on masks. I had, being president, you have people, they bring meals, they bring this, they... And I had an instance recently, where a very wonderful person is bringing me a meal, and he's playing with his mask. And he's touching his mask, all over the place.

TRUMP: And then he's bringing a plate in, and I'm saying, "Well, I don't know if that's so good." I mean, the good news, I didn't eat it. Okay? I decided not to eat it. This was a month ago. But I... Look, look, you have, on the masks, you have two stories. You have a story where they want, a story where they don't want. I am all for it.

GUTHRIE: Who is, I don't get that, because it's just... All of your public health officials, your administration, they're in unison about this.

TRUMP: Some. No.

GUTHRIE: They're all in unison about it.

TRUMP: No, the .

GUTHRIE: The University of Washington, which is, they have a model that your coronavirus task force relies on. Says that, if everyone wore a mask, you could cut expected deaths in half.

TRUMP: And then, you have other people that disagree.

GUTHRIE: 60,000 lives. Well, what does that mean?

TRUMP: Scott Atkins, if you look at Scott, Dr. Scott. He's from, great guy, Stanford. He will tell you that, he disagrees with you.

GUTHRIE: He's not an infectious disease expert.

TRUMP: Oh, I don't know. Look, he's an expert. He's one of the great experts of the world.

GUTHRIE: But I don't get it, because you have so much power and influence as president.

TRUMP: I'm all for it.

GUTHRIE: And you could go to your... You could require it.

TRUMP: By the way.

GUTHRIE: ... at your rallies, and you could say.

TRUMP: I never said, "Don't wear them."

GUTHRIE: "Everyone put on a mask right now." And the University of Washington says, you would save lives.

TRUMP: Savannah, University of Washington. And then, you have other places, say different things. You have a lot of... Hey. Dr. Fauci said, "Don't wear a mask," right?

GUTHRIE: At first, but then everybody agreed.

TRUMP: Oh, I don't know. Then he changed his mind. But then, you have a report coming out two days ago, that 85% of the people wearing masks catch it.

GUTHRIE: I looked at that report, it's not about mask wearing. It was neutral on the question of masks.

TRUMP: Savannah. We're on the same side. I say, wear the mask. I'm fine with it.

GUTHRIE: Okay. Okay.

TRUMP: I have no problem. We're on the same side.

GUTHRIE: Let's take a break. We're going to get more questions, right after this.

TRUMP: Thank you.

TRUMP: .

GUTHRIE: And we're back. We're live in Miami with President Trump for a town hall. Live in Miami with President Trump for a town hall. Thank you again, Mr. President. We have another voter. Now, Christie Alonzo, come on out, Christie, she is leaning slightly towards you, she says. She voted for you in 2016. Christie, you ready? Take the mask off, hold the mic close, and let's hear your question.

ALONSO: Thank you for your service, Mr. President.

TRUMP: Thank you. Thank you very much.

ALONSO: We're a hard-working middle-class family of four. My husband and I are both self-employed, and we have to get our own individual healthcare. As you know, healthcare costs have gone up considerably over the decades. And you had originally said you were going to repeal and replace Obamacare. What is your plan now in 2020 to make healthcare costs affordable for Americans like myself?

TRUMP: Good. So we got rid of the individual mandate on Obamacare, which was the worst part of Obamacare, and now you could actually say it's not Obamacare because that's how big it was, where you had to pay a fortune for the privilege of not having to pay for bad health insurance, so we got rid of that. That was a big, big thing. And by doing that, and we will always have... By the way, we're always protecting people with pre-existing conditions, and I can't say that more strongly, but we've been able to bring healthcare costs way down. Now, I took over Obamacare, got rid of the individual mandate, made it good, managed it much better. Remember, they had the $5 billion website disaster, and all of the problems they had. The problem with Obamacare, it's not good. We'd like to terminate it, and we want a much less expensive healthcare that's a much better healthcare, and that's where we're aiming. And if we can do that, and we have a very good chance of doing it, but we've also brought down the price of Obamacare. The problem with Obamacare, it basically is never going to be great, and I want to give great healthcare. So important. And thank you very much.

GUTHRIE: Mr. President, I got a follow-up pre-existing conditions. This is such a big issue for voters.

TRUMP: It is a big issue for me too.

GUTHRIE: In point of fact, your administration is about to go to the Supreme Court to argue to throw out the rest of Obamacare, which includes the protections for preexisting conditions.

TRUMP: That's right. That's right.

GUTHRIE: So your administration is in court right now, trying to get rid of that protection.

TRUMP: In order to replace it with a much better healthcare at a much lower price. And always, under all circumstances, we are going to protect the Republicans. And maybe I changed the party a lot over the last three years, but we will protect people with preexisting conditions. And Savannah, what I want to do, get rid of the terrible Obamacare. I've already done it to a large extent because as you know, the individual mandate is gone. That was the worst part.

GUTHRIE: You repealed, but you haven't replaced.

TRUMP: No, no.

GUTHRIE: Now, you've been in office almost four years.

TRUMP: We have done.

GUTHRIE: You have both houses of Congress, Senate and House, in Republican hands, and there is not a replacement yet.

TRUMP: That's right. I'm sorry, but if you look, we had both houses and what did we do? We got rid of the individual mandate. That went through the legislature.

GUTHRIE: But the promise was repeal and replace.

TRUMP: Look, look. We should be on the same side. I wanted very simple. I'm going to put it very simple. We would like to terminate it, and we would like to replace it with something that's much less expensive and much better. We will always protect people with preexisting conditions.

GUTHRIE: But if you're successful in court.

TRUMP: And here's the thing.

GUTHRIE: ... in November, those preexisting conditions, that promise will be gone.

TRUMP: If we don't succeed, we are running the remnants of whatever's left because we took it apart. We are running the remnants of whatever's left much better than the previous administration, which ran it very badly, but we'd like to have new healthcare much better and much less expensive.

GUTHRIE: Let me get to question number five. And you'll like this, he's stuck in traffic. His name is Joe White. He is registered as a Democrat. He says he's leaning toward Biden and voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016. And his question was a, a second stimulus payment has been broadly agreed upon by the Republicans and Democrats, and yet, now we're in October and it's still not passed. Why not use your office to make the second stimulus payment a separate targeted emergency relief package to help Americans weather the pandemic?

TRUMP: Well, we've actually passed three packages, and we're on our fourth, and I agree with him 100%. He should vote for me. The problem you have is Nancy Pelosi. She couldn't care less about the worker. She couldn't care less about our people. And we should have a stimulus, and I want a stimulus. The Republicans will approve a stimulus. The problem is she doesn't want to do it because she thinks it's bad for her election. The fact is, she's wrong because people know she's in our way, she's not approving it, she doesn't appreciate our people, and she doesn't appreciate, at all, our workers. Nancy Pelosi, we are ready to sign and pass stimulus, but she's got to approve it.

GUTHRIE: People do not love the back and forth of Washington, but this has been a rollercoaster. Back in early October, you one day tweeted, "No more negotiations until after election day. I'm walking away." Then, I think the next couple of days you said, "Maybe we can do something targeted."

TRUMP: That's right.

GUTHRIE: Then you said, "I want a big, big bill." But then Senate Republicans said, "No, we're not for that." So you are the big deal-maker. How come this is so... You yourself had changed positions.

TRUMP: That's right. Did you ever hear a word called negotiation when negotiating? Okay. I'm negotiating.

GUTHRIE: But people's lives are hanging in the balance.

TRUMP: You know what? And you know who I'm negotiating against? Nancy Pelosi, because she doesn't want to give them money. We should have stimulus. This was not our people's fault. This was China's fault. And she's penalizing our people. I'm ready to sign a big, beautiful stimulus. You saw the other day, I said, "Go big or go home." Right?

GUTHRIE: That's what I was talking about.

TRUMP: I want it to be big. I want it to be bold. I want the money to go to directly to the people.

GUTHRIE: Senate Republicans with you, they're going to go big?

TRUMP: They'll go. Yeah, they'll go. They'll go. They're going be very active.

GUTHRIE: Okay, because so far, they have not said they would.

TRUMP: I know, because I haven't asked them to because I can't get through Nancy Pelosi.

GUTHRIE: Okay.

TRUMP: If Nancy Pelosi and I, through my representatives or directly, I don't care, if we agree to something, the Republicans will agree to it.

GUTHRIE: Okay. Our next question comes from... Oh, this is interesting. She voted for Clinton in 2016, but recently changed her registration from Democrat to Independent. She says she's truly undecided. Her name's Becky Lightman. Hello, Becky. What's your question?

TRUMP: How are you?

BPENA: Hi, I'm great. How are you?

TRUMP: Nice to see you. Thank you.

BPENA: Good to see you. So corporate tax rates are a hot button issue and you have cut corporate tax rates. And your opponent, Joe Biden, is planning to raise them. A lot of Americans think that corporations don't pay their share of taxes and want to see those tax rates increase. What do you say to those Americans to maybe tell them why you want the corporate tax rate lower and why that helps them?

TRUMP: It's a great question. We've created more jobs than this country has ever created. We were up to 160 million jobs. We were never even close to that number. We were just hitting 160 million jobs, companies are pouring into our nation because of the tax rate, and if Biden comes in and raises taxes on everybody, including middle income taxes, which he wants to do, you will blow this thing, and you'll end up with a depression, the likes of which you've never had. That's what's going to happen. We have something that's really good. The reason we're coming back so strong is because we built a very strong foundation. Companies are moving in. Car companies are moving into Michigan, into Ohio, into South Carolina, and North Carolina just today, so what's happening is, they're coming in because we reduced the taxes. Our taxes, our corporate taxes were the highest in the world, and now they're among the lower taxes. They're not the lowest, but they're among the lowest. And what that means, is jobs, but also we're doing a very big, and we've done a very big, middle income tax package. So if we get in, we're going to do the middle income tax package, but it's a great question. And if he comes along and raises rates, all those companies that are coming in, they will leave the U.S. so fast your head will spin. We can't let that happen. Thank you.

GUTHRIE: On the subject of taxes, as you know, the New York times has obtained, it says years of your tax returns among other things, it says that you have debts of approximately $421 million that you have personally guaranteed, and that will come due in the next four years. The question is, on behalf of voters, who do you owe $421 million to?

TRUMP: Okay, first of all, let me answer. What they did is illegal, number one. Also, the numbers are all wrong, with the numbers they released. And just so you understand, when you have a lot of real estate, I have real estate, you know a lot of it. Okay? Right down the road, Doral, big stuff, great stuff. When I decided to run, I'm very underlevered, fortunately, but I'm very underlevered. I have a very, very small percentage of debt compared. In fact, some of it, I did as favors to institutions that wanted to loan me money. $400 million compared to the assets that I have, all of these great properties all over the world, and frankly, The Bank of America building in San Francisco. I don't love what's happening to San Francisco. 1290 Avenue of the Americas, one of the biggest office buildings.

GUTHRIE: Well do I hear you right? It sounds like you're saying $400 million isn't that much. But are you confirming that, yes, you do owe some $400 million?

TRUMP: What I'm saying is that, it's a tiny percentage of my net worth.

GUTHRIE: That sounds like yes.

TRUMP: And you'll see that soon because we're doing things. We've given, I think it's 108 or 112 pages of financial detail to elections, and we have to file as the president, as any politician, you have to file. Nobody ever looks at that. When they do, they see how incredible a company is, but more importantly, they see where this debt is. No, I don't owe Russia money. I owe a very, very small... It's called mortgages. People have a house, they put a mortgage.

GUTHRIE: Any foreign bank? Any foreign entity?

TRUMP: Not that I know of, but I will probably, because it's so easy to solve, and if you'd like to do, I will let you know who I owe, whatever small amount of money. I want to say two things. Number one, it's a very small amount of money. Number two, it's very straight. It's very, very straight, but it's a tiny percentage of the worth. Did you ever hear the expression underlevered?

GUTHRIE: Yeah.

TRUMP: I am extremely underlevered.

GUTHRIE: Well, here's the thing. You could clear this up tonight by just releasing your tax returns yourself. That's what I don't understand. I think people are just wondering, you're the only.

TRUMP: As you know, I'm under audit. It turned out that I am under audit.

GUTHRIE: Yes, but the IRS said... You are.

TRUMP: But they actually... Excuse me. No, no.

GUTHRIE: But the IRS says that doesn't stop you from releasing.

TRUMP: But you accused me of not being under audit previously.

GUTHRIE: I did not.

TRUMP: And so did other people at NBC. And I am under audit.

GUTHRIE: You are.

TRUMP: So that one's solved. That's good. I am under audit. No person in their right mind would release, prior to working out the deal with the IRS. And I'll go a step further. I'm treated very badly by the IRS. They treat me very, very badly. You have people in there from previous administrations that treat me very badly, but we're under audit. It's very routine, in many ways, but we're under audit. They like to change the game, change the rules, do everything. You saw what they did with the tea party people. You saw what they did with the religious group.

GUTHRIE: But to be clear, there is no law or rule that prohibits you from releasing your tax returns.

TRUMP: No, except common sense, and intelligence, and having lawyers that say... Because I would love to release them, and as soon as we come to a conclusion, I will release them, and very gladly, but if you go to elections, and if you take a look, you'll see 112, I think it's 112, it talks about the income, which is rather massive. It talks about all of the properties. They have them listed. You can never learn more, but you know what happened? People went there. All the reporters went. There was a feeding frenzy. This was originally, when I filed it. And I filed it every year. I update it every year. My son is here. They run the company. I don't run the company.

GUTHRIE: It also says that you've paid $750 in taxes in the year you were elected. Is that true or not?

TRUMP: Yeah, because that's a statutory number. It's a statutory.

GUTHRIE: But is that true?

TRUMP: I think it's a filing number. You pay 750, it's a filing or a filing fee.

GUTHRIE: But is that all you paid? Because most people here probably paid more.

TRUMP: No, I don't know. I can tell you this. If they have my tax returns, as you know, they have to go to jail. It's illegal, but their numbers were wrong, but let me tell you what else. I don't owe money to any of these sinister people. This has been going on for years now. Russia, Russia, Russia. It turned out to be a hoax, and it turned out to be that Hillary Clinton and the Democrats were dealing with Russia, not me. It's a whole hoax. So I would not mind at all saying who it is, but it's a very small... When you look at vast properties like I have, and they're big, and they're beautiful, and they're well located. When you look at that, the amount of money, $400 million is a peanut. It's extremely underlevered. And it's levered with normal banks. Not a big deal.

GUTHRIE: All right, let's take a break. We'll get more voter questions right after this.

TRUMP: Thank you. Thank you.

GUTHRIE: We are live in Miami, in the middle of a town hall with President Trump. Thank you again.

GUTHRIE: We are live in Miami in the middle of a town hall with President Trump. Thank you again for being here.

TRUMP: Thank you.

GUTHRIE: We've got another voter, Adam Schucher. He voted for Clinton in 2016. He's registered as a Democrat and says he's supporting Biden. Adam, take it away.

SCHUCHER: Thank you, Savannah. Thank you, Mr. President.

TRUMP: Thank you, Adam.

SCHUCHER: Four years ago, Senate leadership said it was inappropriate to push through a nominee in an election year, yet they fast-tracked your nominee for the Supreme Court just today. The question I have for you is, what do you say to the voter that thinks it's hypocritical to act in that manner and that they can't trust Republicans' word?

TRUMP: So when I was elected, and when a president is elected, they're elected for a period of four years. And Justice Ginsburg said it best. I think, talking about president Obama having to do with somebody else, that the president is put there for four years, not for three years. So during this fourth year, it happened to come up, unfortunately, because I had great respect for Justice Ginsburg. But a vacancy happened to come up, and we picked somebody that's outstanding. She has been an absolute star, and I'm extremely proud of it. But again, plenty of time.

TRUMP: There's plenty of time. We're going to do it before the election, but we also have much time after the election. But there's no reason to wait, because it's almost unanimous, it seems to me, certainly within the Republican party. And frankly, most of the Democrats within closed rooms, I guarantee you that. This is an outstanding person, and I'm using my fourth term. And if you look at it and if you put the shoe on the other foot, if they had this, they would do it 100%. So there's been 29 times when this has happened. All 29 times a president has done exactly what I've done.

GUTHRIE: To the voter's point, I'll just say that in 2016, you were on another show, actually another morning show, and you were asked whether President Obama should nominate a Supreme Court Justice Merrick Garland. And you said, "I think the Senate should wait until the next president, and let the president pick." Now that was eight months before the election. This is three weeks before the election.

TRUMP: So I have a lot of respect, by the way, for.

GUTHRIE: So you have changed your position on this?

TRUMP: I have a lot of respect for Judge Garland. I want to tell you that. But I'll tell you, the whole ball game changed when I saw the way they treated Justice Kavanaugh. I have never seen any human being, and I'm not just talking about Supreme Court... I have never seen a human being treated so badly with false accusations and everything else. I have never seen anything like it. And you know what the truth is, Savannah? Like it or not, the ball game changed a lot. There has never been anybody treated so badly as, now Justice Kavanaugh.

GUTHRIE: You've mentioned that you would like to see Amy Coney Barrett confirmed to the Supreme Court in case any challenges come up in connection with the election. Do you expect her to rule for you?

TRUMP: Well, I think she'll have to make that decision. I don't think she has any conflict at all. A Supreme Court judge does not have... They can make their own decision. They actually have additional power to make that decision. It would be totally up to her. I would think that she would be able to rule either for me or against me, being I don't see any conflict whatsoever. We have an election coming up. I think it's the most important election in the history of our country. If for any chance, and it probably won't... And I hope it doesn't ever get to the Supreme Court. But if it did, I would think that she would rule one way or the other. I would think so.

GUTHRIE: But for you? You think she would rule for you?

TRUMP: I have no idea.

GUTHRIE: Of course she'll rule one way or the other, but.

TRUMP: Because believe it or not, I never asked her about it. I never talked about it. I didn't talk about any of the obvious things that you could talk about. And I think a lot of people in my position might. But in speaking to a lot of very brilliant people and people that do this for a living, they say it's better not to talk. So I talked to her about life. I talked to her about the fact, "Would you like to do this? Are you willing to do this?" Because it's a tremendous burden. The answer was, "Yes." She's unbelievably well-qualified, but I never spoke to her about these various questions.

GUTHRIE: Let's get our next voter. She's leaning to you, Mr. President. She voted for you in 2016. She is a registered Republican. Her name is Moriah Greene. Mariah, what's your question?

TRUMP: Thank you very much.

GEENE: Thank you. Good evening, Mr. President. I'm honored to be with you here tonight, sir. So thank you. I'm a pro-life millennial. And my question for you today is, if Roe v. Wade is ultimately overturned in the future, what protections would be put in place or kept for where the mother's life is in jeopardy in relation to high risk pregnancies?

TRUMP: Well, again, I'm not ruling on this. And Roe v. Wade is something that a lot of people would say, obviously, you're going to speak to somebody. Also two other great Justices, Justice Gorsuch, and Justice Kavanaugh... I never spoke to them about Roe v. Wade. I never spoke to them about election laws. I never spoke to them about anything. And I've done the right thing from a moral standpoint. I don't even know from a legal standpoint, but it was the right thing. I think, depending on what happens with Roe v. Wade, I think that perhaps it could get sent down to the states, and the states would decide. I also think perhaps nothing will happen. I have not talked to her about it. I think it would be inappropriate to talk to her about it. And some people would say, "You can talk to about it." I just think it would be inappropriate.

GUTHRIE: But what is your preference? Because agreed, that's not something you should talk to the judge about. But would you like to see Roe versus Wade overturned?

TRUMP: I would like to see a brilliant jurist, a brilliant person who has done this in great depth and has actually skirted this issue for a long time, make a decision. And that's why I chose her. I think that she's going to make a great decision. I did not tell her what decision to make. And I think it would be inappropriate to say right now, because I don't want to do anything to influence her. I want her to get approved, and then I want her to go by the law. And I know she's going to make a great decision for our country, along with the other two people I put there.

GUTHRIE: You're running as a pro-life Republican. Most pro-life Republicans would like to see Roe v. Wade overturned and abortion banned.

TRUMP: Many of them would. Perhaps most of them would. I am telling you, I don't want to do anything to influence anything right now. I don't want to go out tomorrow and say, "Oh, he's trying to give her a signal." Because I didn't speak to her about it. I've done the right thing in so doing. How she's going to rule, you're going to find out perhaps. Or you might not find out. It may never get there. It may never get there. We'll see what happens.

GUTHRIE: All right. We have another question. This is Cindy Velez. She is undecided. She says she's leaning to Biden, and she did vote for Clinton in 2016. She's registered as a Democrat. Hi Cindy. What's your question?

VELEZ: Good evening, Savannah.

TRUMP: Hi, Cindy. Thank you.

VELEZ: Good evening, Mr. President.

TRUMP: Thank you very much.

VELEZ: As the mother of a young male of color, I have reason to respect authority, not only because it's the right thing to do, but also out of fear that he may face profiling or be considered a criminal. As an educator, I've also had similar conversations with my high school students. Mr. President, what will you and your administration do to better prepare our law enforcement officers to work in collaboration with the communities that they serve and also to protect the lives of innocent Black and Latinos from police brutality and injustice?

TRUMP: Right. I fully understand the question, and I saw everything that you saw over the summer. And it was a terrible thing, a terrible thing to watch. We have a Senator named Tim Scott from South Carolina. He came up with a bill that should have been approved. It was great. It was a bill that was strong in terms of law enforcement, and strong in terms of enforcing the proper thing, and doing the proper thing by law enforcement. And the Democrats just wouldn't go for it. They wouldn't go for it at all. And I don't know why, because it was a really great bill. But I do have to say this. And some people don't like it when I say it, but a lot of people agree. I have done more for the African American community than any president. With the exception of Abraham Lincoln. Criminal justice reform, prison reform, historically Black colleges and universities. I got them funded.

TRUMP: They were on a year to year basis. They could have been put out of business. As soon as our country had a little bad year, they would have said, "I'm sorry, we're not going to fund you." I got them 10 year funding and financing. And more than they even asked for. I became very friendly with a lot of the heads. But we've done more... And of course, opportunity zones. But criminal justice reform, everybody said it could not be done. President Obama and Biden never even tried to do it. They never even tried. But I say that, and I say it often. I'll say it loud, and I'm very proud of it. And I have a great relationship because of what I've done with the African-American community. I'm very proud of it.

GUTHRIE: Let's go to our next question. We have Paulette Dale, she leans slightly to Biden. She voted for Clinton in 2016. She's registered as a Republican. Paulette, what's your question?

DALE: Thank you. Good evening, Mr. President.

TRUMP: Thank you. Thank you very much.

DALE: I have to say, you have a great smile.

TRUMP: Got you. Thank you.

DALE: He does. You're so handsome when you smile. As the daughter of immigrants to the United States who fled Eastern Europe due to religious persecution, the United States immigration policies are very personal for me.

TRUMP: Right.

DALE: Surveys show that most Americans, and the majority of Republicans, support the Dreamers program. So my question for you, Mr. President, is if you are elected to a second term, do you expect to pursue your previous efforts to cut the DACA program?

TRUMP: Yeah.

DALE: Why or why not?

TRUMP: DACA is somewhat different than Dreamers. You understand that, and you understand it better than anybody, probably, in this room. Where do you come from, by the way, originally? Where?

DALE: My grandparents were from Russia and Poland.

TRUMP: That's very good. Okay. So we are going to take care of DACA. We're going to take care of Dreamer. It's working right now. We're negotiating different aspects of immigration and immigration law. We've built now, over 400 miles of border wall, southern border. Mexico is working very closely with us. We have the strongest border we've ever had. We want people to come into our country. They have to come in legally. But we are working very hard on the DACA program. And you will be, I think, very happy over the course of the next year.

DALE: Thank you.

TRUMP: Because I feel the same way as you do about it.

DALE: Thank you, Mr. President.

TRUMP: Thank you. Thank you very much.

GUTHRIE: Mr. President, in point of fact, the DACA program... Under your administration, no new applicants are allowed. And in fact, the DACA recipients now have to renew every year as opposed to every two years. So in fact, the DACA program has been curtailed by your administration.

TRUMP: Well, what happens is because of the pandemic, much changed on the immigration front. Mexico is heavily infected, as you know. And we've made it very, very difficult to come in because of the pandemic, and other reasons, and crime. But we have a very strong border right now, and we have to keep it that way. But we want people to come into our country, but they have to come in through a merit system, and they have to come in legally. And people are very, very happy with it. You haven't heard any complaints about that. But what happened is because of the pandemic, we have to be extra cautious.

GUTHRIE: You have been promising this immigration bill since, well, at least July, when you told my colleague on Telemundo it was coming. But nothing's come yet.

TRUMP: It's very happy. The fact is, we got rid of catch and release, which is a disaster. You catch somebody. They could be a murderer. That could be a rapist, and we're supposed to release them into our country. These are the laws that I inherited. We ended that program. Now, I think you're going to see something very, very good. The whole immigration... If you look at what's going on, people used to pour into our country. And especially during the pandemic, I think even you, Savannah, will be very impressed with what we've done.

GUTHRIE: Sir, we have about 30 seconds left.

TRUMP: Sure.

GUTHRIE: I think about people sitting out there tonight. There are some who love you. Some of them are sitting right around here, and some who will never vote for you. But there are people in the middle. There are people who aren't sure.

TRUMP: That's right.

GUTHRIE: There are people who want to know why they should give you a second chance and how you might improve in a second term. 30 seconds. What would you say to them?

TRUMP: Because I've done a great job. We have the strongest economy in the world. We closed it up. We are coming around the corner. The vaccines are coming out soon, and our economy is strong. We are at a level with jobs like we've never been before. We've rebuilt our military. We've rebuilt our borders. We had no borders. We had no nothing. We've rebuilt so much. We've given you the greatest tax cut in the history of our country. Greatest regulation cut, equally as important. And we created new levels of jobs that nobody thought was possible. And next year is going to be better than ever before.

GUTHRIE: I got to leave it there. I got a wrap from the control room. Mr. President, thank you for your time.

TRUMP: Thank you very much.

GUTHRIE: Thank you for listening to the voters' questions. That concludes our town hall. We do want to thank the president again, as well as our audience in hot Miami, and all of you watching at home. And a reminder, Donald Trump and Joe Biden are scheduled to meet in person a week from tonight in Nashville, a second and final presidential debate, moderated by our own Kristen Welker. Have a good evening, and thanks for being with us.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Hey, and welcome to our town hall with Joe Biden. Mr. Vice President, welcome to you.

BIDEN: Good to be with you.

STEPHANOPOULOS: We're here with a group of Pennsylvania voters. You can see they're all appropriately socially distanced tonight. And there are a group of, some are voting for you, some have said they're voting for president Trump, some are still undecided, and we're going to try to take questions from as many of them as we can tonight.

BIDEN: Okay.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And we're going to start with Nicholas Fed, and he's from Jenkintown, Pennsylvania. That's close to here, in Philadelphia.

BIDEN: I know it well.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You're a Democrat.

FED: I'm a Democrat. Thank you, George. Mr. Vice President, every day, my wife and I are in disbelief at the lack of coordinated federal action on COVID-19. We know that your administration would follow the science. My question for you, it's two parts. First, looking backwards to when this country first became aware of COVID-19, what would following the science have meant in terms of actual policy? And then, looking forward, what would your administration do in terms of following the science with real concrete policies that haven't been done by the current administration?

BIDEN: Well, first of all, going back, the fact is that the president was informed how dangerous this virus was. And all the way back in the beginning of February, I argued that we should be keeping people in China. And we had set up, in our administration, a pandemic office within the White House. There were 44 people on the ground.

BIDEN: I suggested that we should be seeking, and I didn't hold public office, I was a former Vice President, we in fact asked to have access to the source of the problem. And the best of our knowledge, Trump never pushed that. All those 44 people came home, never got replaced. In addition to that, I pointed out that I thought in February, I did a piece for USA Today saying, "This is a serious problem. Trump denied it. He said it wasn't."

BIDEN: We later learned that he knew full well how serious it was when he did an interview with George Woodward. I mean, excuse me, Bob Woodward. And at the time, he said he didn't tell anybody because he was afraid Americans would panic. Americans don't panic, he panicked. He didn't say a word to anybody.

BIDEN: Then I wrote a piece in March about what I thought we should be doing to take hold of this, using the... There's an act that passed a long time ago that allows the president to go into a business and say, "Stop making this, and start making that." And it took a long time for him to even institute that, to get ventilators and so on. And so, the point was he missed enormous opportunities and kept saying things that weren't true. It's going to go away by Easter, don't worry about it. When the summer comes, it's all going to go away like a miracle. He's still saying those things.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Before you go to the future, can I follow up on the, "I'm looking backwards." just a little bit? You did have an op-ed in January where you warned of the seriousness of the pandemic, but there's no record of you calling for social distancing, limited social gatherings, mandatory mask.

BIDEN: Not back then.

STEPHANOPOULOS: In January, February.

BIDEN: Not in January, February. No, that's correct, there wasn't. That came at the end of March. And then I laid out a detailed plan relative to school openings in June and July. By that time, the science was becoming clearer and clearer of how this was spreading so rapidly. But the president kept denying that. If you notice, from March on, I stopped doing big meetings, I started wearing masks.

BIDEN: So, it was at a time when the science was saying, and his key people, Dr. Fauci were saying, "You should be taking these precautions." So, what we should be doing now, there should be a national standard. Instead of leaving this up to, remember what the president said to the governors, "Well, they're on their own, it's not my responsibility. The governors can do what they need to do, not my responsibility." It is a presidential responsibility to lead, and he didn't do that.

BIDEN: He didn't talk about what needed to be done because he kept worrying, in my view, about the stock market. He worried if he talked about how bad this could be, unless we took these precautionary actions, then in fact, the market would go down. And his barometer of success to the economy is the market.

BIDEN: Thirdly, what we didn't do is, the president had an opportunity to open and allow schools and businesses to stay open if they got the kind of help they needed. So, the Congress passed a couple of trillion dollars worth of help. And what happened was most of that money, a significant portion of that money went to the very wealthiest corporations in the country, didn't get to the mom and pop stores.

BIDEN: So, you had one in five, one in six minority businesses closing. Many of them permanently. People being laid off. And then what happened was, when the first round of money for unemployment, enhanced unemployment went by, he didn't do anything. He didn't do anything. And to the best of my knowledge, and I mean this sincerely, I can't think of, I've been around for a lot of presidents, and you know a lot of presidents in a crisis, I don't ever remember one never calling the House and Senate Republicans, Democrats together.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's look forward a little bit. You said that you would lock down the economy, only if the scientists said it was necessary.

BIDEN: By the way, in the context, would I lock down the economy if science said so? I said I'd follow science. But I don't think there's a need to lock down.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Yeah, but I want to press you on that point. You've been in the Oval Office for eight years with President Obama, he would always say that only the hard to solve problems.

BIDEN: Get there.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What is most likely to happen is, the scientists will disagree. The scientists will disagree with the economist. So the question is, how are you going to decide this? Who are you going to listen to? And how can you can contain the pandemic without crushing the economy?

BIDEN: Well, you can contain the pandemic by being rational and not crush economy. For example, I laid out a plan, how you can open businesses. You can open businesses and schools, if in fact you provide them the guidance that they need, as well as the money to be able to do it. What's happening now is, we know, for example, if you can open a business and you could have a sign on the door saying, "Safe to come in." And that's why people aren't going anyway, when they're open.

BIDEN: And say, because you have social distancing, you have plastic barriers, when you go to the cashier, you have separators between the booths. You don't have large crowds, you reduce the size, the number of people you can have in the restaurant. You make sure there's testing, that's a really critical piece that he didn't do testing and tracing. And you make sure that people are equipped, going to schools.

BIDEN: You know, we initially said, the government initially said, they're going to provide masks for every student and every teacher. Then they said, "No, no, no, no." FEMA said, the president or whomever said, ‘No, no, no. That's not a national emergency, not a national emergency."

BIDEN: We need more teachers in our schools to be able to open smaller pods. We need ventilation systems change. There's a lot of things we know now, and I laid them out in some detail. Now again, when I say I laid them out, I'm not an office holder. I'm running for office. It's not like I'm still Vice President, or I wasn't a United States Senator pushing this.

BIDEN: So, I don't want to say, "I, I, I." But we did lay out exactly what needed to be done. And take a look, we make up 4% of the world's population. We have 20% of the world's deaths. We're in a situation where we have 210 plus thousand people dead. And what's he doing? Nothing. He's still not wearing masks, and so on.

STEPHANOPOULOS: We're getting some other questions on COVID.

BIDEN: Sure.

STEPHANOPOULOS: The next one comes from Kelly Lee. She's from Philadelphia.

BIDEN: Thank you.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Republican. Voted for Donald Trump in 2016.

LEE: I did.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Undecided now.

BIDEN: Hey, Kelly. How are you?

LEE: Hi, Mr. Biden. My question is about the coronavirus vaccine, or potential.

BIDEN: Yes.

LEE: Senator Harris stated that she absolutely would not take a vaccine from President Trump. And of course, we all know it's not President Trump that would create this vaccine. It would be doctors and scientists that presumably we all trust. So, my question for you is if a vaccine were approved between now and the end of the year, would you take it? And if you were to become president, would you mandate that everyone has to take it?

BIDEN: Two things. Number one, President Trump talks about things that just aren't accurate, about everything from vaccines, we're going to have one right away, is it going to happen, and so on. The point is that, if the scientists, if the body of scientists say that this is what is ready to be done, and it's been tested, they've gone through the three phases. Yes, I would take it. I'd encourage people to take it.

BIDEN: But President Trump says things like, everything from this crazy stuff he's walking away from now, inject bleach in your arm, and that's going to work. I'm not being facetious, he's actually said these things. And now, Regeneron is the answer. That's going to cure everything. There's 500,000 doses, we have more than a few million people, you know? And so, if you noticed, most of the companies who are developing these vaccines are working, they're making real progress.

BIDEN: I meet with four leading scientists, at least twice a week. In the beginning, four times a week, giving us the detail on what kind of progress is being made. And right now, they do the right thing. When they run into a serious problem, they halt the test. They don't continue until they figure out what the problem was. They're not there yet.

BIDEN: And the most scientists say, that it's not likely to have a vaccine that would be available until the beginning of next year, into the spring of next year. And in the meantime, what I worry about is the same thing with Regeneron, which is a useful antidote. Not antidote, a useful tool. But what's happening is there was no plan to figure out how to distribute it. We have 500,000 vials of it.

BIDEN: Well, we don't have all the testing equipment. We don't have all the ability to get it to the people who need it. And what we should be doing now, and allegedly it's happening, but I've not seen it yet nor the docs that I've talked to seen it. There should be a plan when we have the vaccine, how do we distribute it?

STEPHANOPOULOS: And once we get it, if it's safe, if it's effective, will you mandate its use?

BIDEN: The answer is, depending on how clear... Vaccines, they say, have a very positive impact and that you're going to affect positively 85% of the American public. Or there's others say, "This vaccine is really the key. This is the golden key." It depends on the state of the nature of the vaccine when it comes out, and how it's being distributed. But I would think that we should be talking about, depending on the continuation of the spread of the virus, we should be thinking about making it mandatory.

STEPHANOPOULOS: How would you enforce that?

BIDEN: Well, you couldn't, that's the problem. Just like you can't enforce measles, you can't come to school unless you have a measles shot. You know, you can't. But you can't say, everyone has to do this, just like you can't mandate a mask. But you can say, you can go to every governor and get them all in a room, all 50 of them as president and say, " Ask people to wear the mask. Everybody knows."

STEPHANOPOULOS: And if they don't? Fines?

BIDEN: And if they don't, no. Not fine. Then I go to every governor, I go to every mayor, I go to every councilmen, and I go to every local official, say, "Mandate the mask." Say, "This is what you have to do when you're out. Make sure you encourage it being done." Look, George, you and I know, and I think you do too as well, the words of a president matter.

LEE: Absolutely.

BIDEN: No matter whether they're good, bad, or indifferent, they matter. And when a president doesn't wear a mask or makes fun of folks like me, when I was wearing a mask for a long time, then people say, "Well, it mustn't be that important." But when a president says, "I think this is very important." For example, I walked in here with this mask, but I have one of the N95 masks underneath it. I left it in my dressing room. Not the dresser, the room I was in before I got here.

BIDEN: And so, I think it matters what we say. And we're now learning that children are getting the virus, not with as serious consequences, but there's been no studies done yet on vaccines for children. So, there's a long way to go, but we can make progress in the meantime and save lives.

BIDEN: And the last point I'll make, if you listen to the head of the CDC, he stood up and he said, "You know, while we're waiting for a vaccine." He held up a mask. "You wear this mask, you'll save more lives between now and the end of the year than if we had a vaccine." It's estimated by every major study done from the University of Washington to Columbia, that if in fact we wore masks, we could save, between now and the end of the year, a hundred thousand lives.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And avoid lock downs?

BIDEN: And avoid lockdown, yes. You don't have to lock down if you're wearing the mask.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's get a question on the economy. Anthony Archer.

BIDEN: Thank you, I hope I answered your question.

STEPHANOPOULOS: ... from Canonsburg, Pennsylvania, it's a suburb of Pittsburgh. Republican.

BIDEN: I know it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Voted for President Trump.

ARCHER: Thank you, George. Thank you, Mr. Vice President. You stated that anyone making less than $400,000 will not see one single penny of their taxes raised.

BIDEN: That's right.

ARCHER: But also, state that you are going to eliminate the Trump tax cuts. The Trump tax cuts reduces taxes for the majority of workers. I would argue, not enough. What is your plan for either extending the tax cuts for the middle-class, or creating a new plan that further reduces those taxes?

BIDEN: I carry this card with me. When I said the Trump tax cuts, about 1.3 trillion of the $2 trillion in his tax cuts went to the top one 10th of 1%. That's what I'm talking about eliminating, not all the tax cuts that are out there. And by the way, if you take a look, we reduced the corporate tax rate from 35%. and Democrats, Republicans who were in office thought it should come down to 28%. He reduced it to 21%.

BIDEN: You have 91 out of the Fortune 500 companies not paying a single solitary penny. If you raise the corporate tax back to 28%, which is a fair tax, you'd raise one trillion, three hundred billion dollars by that one act. If you made sure that people making over 400 grand paid what they did in the Bush administration, 39.6%, you would raise another, it goes up to let me get you the exact number here, about another 200, excuse me. $92 billion.

BIDEN: So, you could raise a lot of money to be able to invest in things that can make your life easier. Make you change your standard of living by making sure you have affordable health care, by making sure you're in a situation where you're able to send your kid to school. If you have student debt, you can deal with it. Making sure that your home, you can pay your mortgage. You got 20 million people, right now.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. Vice President, let me press you on that though.

BIDEN: Sure.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You're going to raise the corporate tax, you're going to raise taxes on the wealthy. Is it wise to do even that when the economy is as weak as it is right now?

BIDEN: Absolutely.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Another 900, 000 people have filed for unemployment.

BIDEN: That's a great question. Moody's did analysis of my detailed analysis of my tax plan and my economic plan. They said, I will, in four years, Moody's Wall Street, said I will create 18.6 million new jobs, good paying jobs, number one. Number two, the GDP will grow by a trillion dollars more than would under Trump, and 7 million more jobs than under Trump.

BIDEN: And the reason is, when you allow people to get back in the game and have a job, everything moves. Everything moves. Right now, you got the opposite. You had, last year during this pandemic, you had the wealthiest billionaires in the world, in the nation, they made another $700 billion. $700 billion. He talks about a V-shape recovery. It's a K shape recovery. If you're on the top, you're going to do very well. And if you're in the bottom, or you're in the middle or the bottom, your income is coming down. You're not getting a raise.

BIDEN: I shouldn't, I don't know what you do. You may get a raise. Hope you're a billionaire. But all kidding aside, it's about growing the economy. And George, the way out, the reason why I'm so optimistic about economic recovery, more than I've ever been, is we have these four crises happening all at once. And one helps the other. For example, we're going to invest a great deal of that money into infrastructure, and to a green infrastructure.

BIDEN: We're going to put 500,000 charging stations on new highways we're building, and all highways we're building. We're going to own the electric market. You know as well as I do from your days, you know, in the old days, where the president spends about $600 billion a year on government contracts. Everything from making sure they have aircraft carriers, to automobile fleets in the United States.

BIDEN: If you make, and it's not in violation of any international trade agreement, made in America. If you actually insist that whatever that product is, made in America, including the material that goes into the product. It is estimated we're going to create somewhere between another four and six million jobs just by doing that.

BIDEN: But what's happening now under his trade policy, a lot of this is going overseas. You get a benefit from going overseas, if you have much of it being made overseas. So, if you send it overseas, you get a 10% tax increase on a product. If you make it in America and you bring it back, you get a 10% growth. If you bring back a company, and you're going to open up an old facility, you get a 10% tax credit for all you invested. That actually works, George.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So, there's not going to be any delay on the tax increases?

BIDEN: No, well. I got to get the votes. I got to get the votes. That's why, the one thing, I have this strange notion. We are a democracy. Some of my Republican friends and some of my Democratic friends, even occasionally say, "Well, if you can't get the votes by executive order, you're going to do something. Things you can't do by executive order, unless you're a dictator." We're democracy, we need consensus.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Got to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

BIDEN: I hope I answered your question.

VOICE: We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. This special edition of 2020 will return in a moment.

VOICE: The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude. From the Constitution Center in Philadelphia here again, George Stephanopoulos.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And welcome back to our town hall with Joe Biden. We're going to get a question now from Cedric Humphrey. He's a student from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Progressive Democrat.

BIDEN: Don't jump, Cedric. You're look like you're way up there.

HUMPHREY: I'll be okay. Thank you, George. And good evening, former Vice President Biden.

BIDEN: Good evening.

HUMPHREY: Many people believe that the true swing demographic in this election will be.

HUMPHREY: Many people believe that the true swing demographic in this election will be Black voters under the age of 30, not because they'll be voting for Trump, but because they won't vote at all. I myself have had this exact same conflict. So my question for you then is, besides "You ain't Black," what do you have to say to young Black voters who see voting for you as further participation in a system that continually fails to protect them?

BIDEN: Well, I'd say first of all, as my buddy John Lewis said, "It's a sacred opportunity, the right to vote. You can make a difference." If young Black women and men vote, you can determine the outcome of this election. Not a joke. You can do that. Then the next question is, am I worthy of your vote? Can I earn your vote? And the answer is, there's two things I think that I care and I've demonstrated I care about my whole career. One is, in addition to dealing with a criminal justice system to make it fairer and make it more decent, we have to be able to put Black Americans in a position to be able to gain wealth, generate wealth. And so you look at what that entails.

BIDEN: It entails everything from early education, that's why I'm supporting making sure that Title One schools, as you know, schools with the least tax base to be able to support their schools, I increased the funding from them from $15 to $45 billion. That allows every teacher in that school to make up to 60,000 bucks, and the problem now is they're leaving the schools. They're not there. We're short about a million and a half teachers, a million and a quarter teachers.

BIDEN: Number two, every three and four and five-year-old will go to school, school, not daycare, school, and with all the great universities, including the one you've gone to, go to, or went to, in fact, talks about in the last eight years, what's happened. What happens when you let them go to school? They make up rapidly whatever shortcoming they had in terms of their education prior to that. They have not heard as many words spoken, et cetera, et cetera. What happens is that, the studies show, that 58% will increase by 58% their chance of going all through 12 years of school, and going through successfully. It will also provide for the ability to bring in social workers and school psychologists. We have one school psychologist in America now for every 1,507 kids. It should be one to 500, not just in schools that are poor, but in all schools, because we learned that, for example, drug abuse doesn't cause mental illness, mental illness causes drug abuse, the failure to get hold of people and deal with their anxieties.

BIDEN: In addition to that, I provide for a $70 billion for HBC use for them to be able to have the wherewithal to do what other universities can do, because they don't have the kind of foundational support they need. And so that would allow them, for example, like we did in our administration, the President allowed me to go down and we awarded a cybersecurity laboratory, ability to compete for cybersecurity laboratory. The federal government spends billions of dollars a year on universities, because there are the best kept secret and where most of the major inventions come out of. And so that school now will be able to produce young Black women and men who are going to go into a field of the future that's burgeoning, cybersecurity. And that's what is going to help a great deal.

BIDEN: In addition to that, if you're a young man about to graduate and you graduated from school and you want to own your first home, well, it's awful hard to get the money, depending on the background, where your economic background is, to get a down payments. So we're going to guarantee first term home buyers a $15,000 down payment for first term home buyers. In addition to that, all the studies now show, and I've been arguing this for a long time, is young Black entrepreneurs are just as successful as White entrepreneurs or anyone else given a shot. But you can't get the money. Where do you go to get the startup money? So what President Obama and I did, we had a program where we took $1.5 billion and we invested it in all the SBAs around the country, and the state SBAs, small business associations, and that generated $30 billion came off the sideline.

BIDEN: Because if you have a guarantee of $200,000 for your new startup enterprise, a young entrepreneur, you're going to be able to attract, if it's government money and it's a guarantee, you could be able to attract another $100,000. It generated $30 billion. Well, I'm changing that program and I'll get this done without much trouble I believe in the Congress from $1.5 million to $30 billion. That'll take $300 billion off the sideline and grow. And, for example, if you, in fact, and I were the same age and we split our differences, if we were the same age, and we went to the same builder to buy us each the same home, but my home was in a White neighborhood on one side of a highway, and yours is in a Black neighborhood, same exact home, your home will start off being valued 29% less than my home. Yet your insurance for that home will be higher. You'll be taxed more for it. We've got to end this. That's what got me involved in politics in the first place, a thing called red lining.

BIDEN: We can change so much that we can do so much to change the circumstances to give people a real opportunity.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Cedric. Is that right? Did you hear what you needed here?

HUMPHREY: I think so.

BIDEN: Well, there's a lot more if you're going to hang around afterwards. I'll tell you more.

HUMPHREY: Okay.

BIDEN: No, but I really mean it. It's the key. Look, this is the way every other ... Like my dad, he lost his job up in Scranton and it took him three years to be able to move down to Delaware, to Claymont, Delaware, a little steel town, and send us home to our grandpop to live with him. We finally got back. We lived in an apartment, which became six and eight housing much later. It was just normal apartments. But it took him five years to be able to buy a home. Well, we bought a three bedroom home with four kids and a grandpop living with us, but it accumulated wealth. You built up wealth. That's how middle-class folks make it. They build up wealth. Then he was able to borrow a little against that to be able to help us get the school, those kinds of things. It's about accumulating wealth and you're behind an eight ball. The vast majority of people of color are behind an eight ball.

BIDEN: And it's the same way what's going on now with all this money that's been voted. What's happened? You go to the bank, if you're a Black businessman, and the President fired the only Inspector General to see oversee all this help coming from the Congress. And what happens? You go in and they say, "Ah, do you have an account here?" "No." "Do you have a credit card?" "No." "Have you borrowed from us before ?" "No." We bailed these suckers out. They're not liable for any of the money, but they still won't lend it to you. We've got to change that. It's about accumulating wealth.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I want to get another question in here from Angelica Politarhos.

BIDEN: I'm sorry.

STEPHANOPOULOS: No, not at all. Garnet Valley, Pennsylvania.

POLITARHOS: Hi.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Republican who voted for President Trump last time.

POLITARHOS: Thank you. Thank you, George. Thank you, Vice President Biden. Nice to meet you. What's your view on the Crime Bill that you wrote 1994, which showed prejudice against minorities? Where do you stand today on that?

BIDEN: Well, first of all, things have changed drastically. That Crime Bill, when it voted, the Black Caucus voted for it. Every Black mayor supported it across the board and the Crime Bill itself did not have mandatory sentences except for two things. It had three strikes and you're out, which I voted against, in the Crime Bill, but it had a lot of other things in it that turned out to be both bad and good. I wrote the Violence Against Women Act. That was part of the assault weapons ban and other things that were good. What I was against was giving states more money for prison systems that they could build, state prison systems. And you have 93 out of every 100 people in jail now is in a state prison, not in a federal prison, because they built more prisons.

BIDEN: I also wrote into that bill a thing called drug courts. I don't believe anybody should be going to jail for drug use. They should be going into mandatory rehabilitation. We should be building rehab centers to have these people housed. We should decriminalize marijuana, wipe out the record so you can actually say honesty, "You ever been arrested for murder for anything?" You can say no, because we're going to pass a law saying there is no background that you have to reveal relative to the use of marijuana. And so there's a lot of things. But in addition to that, we've got to change the system. I joined with a group of people in the House to provide for changing the system from punishment to rehabilitation. Along with a guy named Marlon Specter, who you may remember, I wrote the Second Chance Act.

STEPHANOPOULOS: In the meantime, an awful lot of people were jailed for minor drug crimes after the Crime Bill.

BIDEN: Right.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Was it a mistake to support it?

BIDEN: Yes, it was. But here's where the mistake. The mistake came in terms of what the states did locally. What we did federally, we said, you remember, George, it was all about the same time for the same crime. What I had done as the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, I took the 10 Circuit Courts of Appeals, took some really brilliant lawyers working for me in Judiciary, we did a study and we determined what happens if, for the first, second, third offense for any crime in the criminal justice system at the federal level, if you're a Black man and it's the first time you've committed robbery, how long would you go to jail? On average? If you're White man, how long? The Black man would go to jail on average 13 years. White man, two years. I'd go down the list of every single crime.

BIDEN: So we set up a sentencing commission. We didn't set the time. Every single solitary maximum was reduced in there. But what happened was it became the same time for the same crime. So it said, "You have to serve between one and three years." And it ended up becoming much lower, Black folks went to jail a lot less than they would have before. But it was a mistake.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me ask another follow-up on the Crime bill. It also funded 100,000 police back in 1994. You've often said that more cops clearly mean less crime. Do you still believe that?

BIDEN: Yes, if in fact they're involved in community policing, not jump squads. For example, when we had community policing, from the mid-'90s on until till Bush got elected, what happened? Violent crime actually went down precipitous. Remember the significant rise in violent crime that was occurring in the late '80s into the '90s. It went down and fewer African Americans were arrested because you had the requirement. The cops didn't like it. They didn't like the community policing, because you had to have two people in the vehicle, they had to get out of their cars, they had to introduce themselves to who own the local liquor store, who owned the local grocery store, who was the woman on the corner. And what they would do, George, they'd actually go and give people their phone numbers. A cop would give the phone number.

BIDEN: So if Nelly Smith was on the second floor where drug deals took place and things happened below her apartment, she could call and say, "It's Millie, and there's something going on here." And they'd never revealed it was her, because they'd know, if she knew that, in fact, they report, they'd never report the crime, she'd never report. So it actually started to come down. And what happened? They eliminated the funding for community policing. Community policing doesn't mean more people coming in, in armored Humvees and swarming. It turned out that by the time we got to the late '90s and crime had come down so much, the mayors and everybody asked the question, "Where do you want me to spend the money?" They say, "Well, only 1% thought violent crime was a problem." It was as high as 22%.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Right now we have a systemic problem. How do you get the kind of policing, prevent the kind of policing .

BIDEN: You have to change the way in which they . One of the things I'm going to do, George, is what is set up a national study group made up of cops, social workers, as well as made up of the Black community and the Brown community to sit down in the White House and over the next year come up with significant reforms that need to take place within communities. You have to bring them together. One of the things I've observed is, the neighborhood I grew up, I grew up in Claymont, you either became a cop, a firefighter, or a priest. I wasn't qualified much to do any one of them, but here's the deal, all kidding aside. Most cops don't like bad cops.

POLITARHOS: Correct.

BIDEN: They don't like it.

POLITARHOS: That's correct.

BIDEN: And so what happens is they get intimidated into not reporting. So one of the things we do is there has to be transparency available. We have to be able to go in at the federal level, be able to go in and check out whether or not there's systematic problems within police departments. If, in fact, a cop needs to be tried, it's not the prosecutor in the community, in the district there. You've got to go outside the community to get another prosecutor to come in to handle the crime. There's a lot of things we've learned, and it takes time but we can do this. You can ban choke holds, but beyond that, you have to teach people how to de-escalate circumstances. De-escalate. So instead of anybody coming at you and the first thing you do is shoot to kill, you shoot them in the leg. There's ways you have to do more background checks in terms of whether or not the person coming in, passes a certain psychological test.

BIDEN: And the last thing I'll say, and I'm sorry, but it's really, I think, really, really important, is you have to be in a position where you are able to identify, identify the things that have to change. And one of the things that has to change is so many cops get called into circumstances where somebody is mentally off. Like what happened not long ago, that guy with the knife. That's why we have to provide within police departments psychologists and social workers to go out with the cops on those calls, some of those 911 calls to de-escalate the circumstance, to deal with talking them down. But cops are kind of like school teachers now. A school teacher has to know everything from how to handle hunger in a household as well as how to teach how to read. Well, cops or don't have that breadth, and there's a lot of things we can do. We shouldn't be defunding cops. We should be mandating the things that we should be doing within police departments and make sure there's total transparency.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Got to take another quick break. We'll be right back.

BIDEN: I don't know the answer to your question.

SPEAKER: He shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Judges of the Supreme Court, and all other officers of the United States. From the Constitution Center in Philadelphia, here again, George Stephanopoulos.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And the Supreme Court is our next topic. The questioner, Nathan Osburn of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Democrat.

OSBURN: Hi, I'm George and Mr. Vice President.

BIDEN: Hey, Nathan.

OSBURN: Our country's first Supreme Court gave its first ruling is just two blocks from here from 1791 to 1800, and it's become more polarized since then. Merrick Garland didn't get a hearing for all of 2016 and Amy Coney Barrett is being pushed through at the last minute, even though millions have already voted. So what do you think about ideas from people like Pete Buttigieg and others to put in place safeguards that will help ensure more long-term balance and stability? And what do you say to LGBTQ Americans and others who are very worried right now about erosions of their rights and our democracy as a whole?

BIDEN: Well, let me start at the last point and work my way back. I think there's great reason to be concerned. I was on the road most of the time during these hearings so I didn't hear many of them. I just got the recaps when I'd get in late at night. I'm been going around the country, Florida, anyway, but my reading online what the judge said was she didn't answer very many questions at all. And I don't even think she is laid out much of a judicial philosophy in terms of the basis upon which she thinks in the Constitution, nonetheless. So, number one. So I think there's great reason to be concerned for the LGBT community, something I fought very hard for, for a long time to make sure there's equality across the board.

BIDEN: Number two, I think that also healthcare overall is very much in jeopardy as a consequence of the President's going to go directly after this election directly to the Supreme Court within a month to try to get Obamacare wiped out after 10 million people have already lost her insurance from their employer and wants to take 20 million people out of the system as well, plus 100 million people with pre-existing conditions. So there's a lot at stake. I don't think it's appropriate. I think the Constitution implies, there's no provision in the Constitution, my problem is I made a mistake of teaching constitutional law for 21 years, and the separation of powers, the Constitution implies that their way the people have a right to determine who's going to be on the court is how they vote for their Senators and their President. We seek the advice and consent of the Senate. And the President.

STEPHANOPOULOS: The President is President for all four years, isn't he?

BIDEN: He is. But once an election begins, by implication, it is inconsistent with the constitutional principles, in my view. You get disagreement among scholars on this, but I believe it's inconsistent when millions of people have already voted to put someone on the Court. I think it should have been held until this election is over, see what the makeup of the Senate is going to be. If the President wins this election, he should be able to go for it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But how about that question of expanding the court? Here's what you said exactly one year ago tonight at a Democratic debate. You said, "I would not get into court packing. I would not pack the court." That's not what you're saying now. Is the nomination of Judge Barrett reason enough to rethink your position?

BIDEN: What I wanted to do, George, you know if I had answered the question directly then all the focus would be on, what's Biden going to do if he wins? Instead of on, is it appropriate what is going on now? And it should stay. This is the thing that the President loves to do, always take our eye off the ball what's at stake. One of the things Pete has suggested is, and there's a number of constitutional scholars have suggested as well, that there are at least four or five options that are available to determine whether or not you can change the way in which the court lifetime appointment takes place consistent arguably with the Constitution. I have not been a fan of court packing because then it just generates what will happen. Whoever wins, it just keeps moving in a way that is inconsistent with what is going to be manageable.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you're still not a fan?

BIDEN: Well, I'm not a fan. It depends on how this turns out. Not how he wins, but how it's handled, how it's handled. But there's a number of things that are going to be coming up and there's going to be a lot of discussion about other alternative as well.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What does that mean, how it's handled? How will that determine .

BIDEN: For example, there's actually real live debate on the floor, if people are really going to be able to have a time to go through this. I don't know anybody who's gone on the floor that's been a controversial justice in terms of making fundamentally or altering the makeup of the court that's gone through in a day kind of thing. I mean, it depends on ...

BIDEN: ... and the makeup of the court has gone through in a day kind of thing. I mean, it depends on how much they rushed this. And you think about it, George, here you got a lot of people not to be able to pay their mortgage, not being able to put food on the table, not being able to keep their business open, not being able to do anything to deal with what's going on in terms of the economy as a consequence of COVID and they have no time to deal with that, but they have time to rush this through.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, right now it looks like they're going to have a vote around Halloween. So if they vote on it, for the election. If they vote on it before the election, you are open to expanding the court?

BIDEN: I'm open to considering what happens from that point on.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, you said so many times during the campaign, all through the course of your career, it's important to level with 

BIDEN: It is. Good choice. No matter what answer I gave you, if I say it, that's the headline tomorrow. It won't be about what's going on now, the improper way they're proceeding.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But don't voters have a right to know where you stand?

BIDEN: They do have a right to know what I stand and they'll have a right to know where I stand before they vote.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you'll come out with a clear position before election day?

BIDEN: Yes. Depending on how they handle this. But look, what you should do is you got to make sure you vote and vote for a senator who in fact reflects your general view on constitutional interpretation, and vote for a president who thinks is more in line with you. And if you oppose the position that I would not have appointed her, but if you oppose my position, vote for Trump, vote for Republican who shares that view, but that's your opportunity to get involved in lifetime appointments that have presidents come and go, justices stay and stay and stay.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You have a question from a Republican, Andrew Lewis. I would guess a disaffected Republican. You cast a write-in vote for John Kasich in 2016. You're going to vote against President Trump this year.

BIDEN: John's writing in for me, by the way.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I know that.

BIDEN: I'm sorry.

LEWIS: Mr. Vice President, my father Drew Lewis served as secretary of transportation under President Ronald Reagan in his first time.

BIDEN: Oh yeah, I'll be darned.

LEWIS: And some of his closest allies and friends were Democrats, including House Speaker Tip O'Neill and Senator Ted Kennedy. Sadly, today we have highly partisan and dysfunctional governance. And I believe President Trump is primarily responsible for creating this toxic environment. As president, how will you avoid the temptation to exact revenge and instead take the high road and attempt to restore bipartisanship, civility, and honor to our democracy?

BIDEN: It was written by a fellow who won the Pulitzer prize for a book he wrote about the presidency. He said I doubt whether Biden is really Irish. He doesn't hold a grudge. In politics, grudges don't work. They make no sense. I really mean it. I have never, and the second point I'd make is everybody talks about, "Yeah, Joe, when you were a senator and a chairman of foreign relations or chairman of judiciary, you got a lot of things done. You're able to cross the aisle but the days are changed. When you're vice president, you got a lot done, but it can't happen anymore." It can. We got to change the nature of the way we deal with one another. And it starts off by the way your father was and Tip was and others. You don't question another man or woman's motive. You can question their judgment, but not their motive. We badly needed an infrastructure bill.

BIDEN: Well, what happens? I stand up and I say, "We need an infrastructure bill, Senator, but I tell you what, you're in the pocket of the cement industry, but let's see what we can do." He can't get anywhere. Nothing happens. Nothing happens. I learned that lesson a long time ago. I've never, even when it's obvious on its face what the motive is, stick to the subject and listen to the other guy. Listen, what I will be doing as, if I'm elected president and the first thing and not a joke. And you can ask if they'd tell you, your dad's old friends in the Republican side, I'm going to pick up the phone and call them and say, "Let's get together. We've got to figure out how we're going to move forward here."

BIDEN: Because there's so many things we really do agree on. And with Trump out of the way, the vindictiveness of a president going after Republicans who don't do exactly what he says gets taken away. There's going to be, I promise you, between four and eight Republican senators who are going to be willing to move on things where there's bipartisan consensus. Last example I'll give you. After Trump had been elected, named the next president, wasn't sworn in yet, I've been working on a thing called a bill relating to cancer cures. Okay? And it was called the Cancer Moonshot. And I work with a number of Democrats and Republicans. And we had a bill that was about $9 billion that made significant increases in research and development on cancer alternatives, NIH and particularly specific cancer initiatives. And we only had at the time I think it was 111 or 114, whatever it was, votes in the house. I don't hold any exact number.

BIDEN: And we had fewer than 40 in the Senate, but after he was elected, I got those people together as vice president and we sat down and we worked it out and we ended up getting a pass 396 votes in the house and 94 votes in the Senate. And at the end of the day, because it had to do with the Biden Cancer Moonshot I've been working on, Mitch McConnell. Mitch McConnell stood up and I was presiding officer and moved to name the bill after my deceased son, Beau, who had just died. So, there are ways to bring this together.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But how about the question of political accountability? Is there some tension between that and bringing people together? Robert Mueller laid out a lot of evidence of possible obstruction of justice by President Trump. What would a Biden Justice Department do with that evidence?

BIDEN: What the Biden Justice Department will do is let the Department of Justice be the Department of Justice. Let them make the judgments of who should be prosecuted. They're not my lawyers. They're not my personal lawyer.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So, you're not going to rule it in or rule it out?

BIDEN: I'm not going to rule in or out. Well, I'm going to hire really first rate prosecutors and people who understand the law like Democrat and Republican administrations have had, and let them make the judgements, but turning this into a vehicle for your, as if it's your own law firm, you don't own that justice department. You pick the best people you can and you hope that what they're going to do is they're going to enforce the law as they see it. But can you remember any Republican president going out there or former Democratic president go find that guy and prosecute him? Remember, where you hear that? Or by the way, I'm being sued because a woman has accused me of rape. Represent me. Represent me. Personally represent me in the state of New York on my not allowing my tax returns. What's that all about? What is that about?

STEPHANOPOULOS: Got to take another break. We'll be right back.

SPEAKER: The executive power shall be vested in a president of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years and together with the vice president chosen for the - From the constitution center in Philadelphia, here again, George Stephanopoulos.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And welcome back to our town hall with Former Vice President Joe Biden. We're going to look at the environment right now. We're going to get a question from Michele Ellison and from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, businesswoman, a social worker. You're a Republican who's voted for Democrats, but you're not sure what you're going to do this time around. Correct?

ELLISON: Correct. Greetings Former Vice President Biden.

BIDEN: Hello.

ELLISON: Thank you, Mr. Stephanopoulos. In a 2012 report of the University of Pittsburgh's Institute of Politics fracking was discussed and it is possible implications for the waterways from the Commonwealth to the gulf. Fracking has made the population sick and killed wildlife in Southwest Pennsylvania. The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and small business development centers have already begun to transition people away from fossil fuels. What industries that are not harmful to human health and the environment are you planning for Southwest Pennsylvania and the nation?

BIDEN: Well, first of all, I make it clear. I do not propose banning fracking. I think you have to make sure that fracking is in fact not emitting methane or polluting the well or dealing with what can be small earthquakes in how they're drilling. So, it has to be managed very, very well, number one. Number two, what we have to do is the future rests in renewable energy. The single fastest growing energy source in the world right now, because I'm going to say something that's going to sound self-serving, but I manage the RecoveryAact and I was able to invest billions of dollars into bringing down the cost per BTU of wind and solar. So now it's cheaper than coal, is cheaper than oil right now, and it has great, great promise. And it's also the fastest growing employer in the energy industry.

BIDEN: And so there are a number of things that I would do immediately. Number one, there are well over 100,000 wells that are left uncapped in the region. We could hire 128,000 of these people who are working in the industry to cap these wells and get a good salary doing it now, number one. Number two, we should be moving toward finding the new technologies that are going to be able to deal with carbon capture. So, ultimately, it's a transition we moved from, to a net zero emission of carbon that we're still going to be able to use if we find the right technology, some gases, some gas to be able to, if we can carbon capture.

BIDEN: And I think we're going to be able to move in a direction where by the year 2035, we'll be able to have net zero emissions of carbon from the creation of energy, energy creation so we can move it by dealing with those. And every time we talk about global warming or the environment, the president thinks it's a joke and I think as jobs, because what we're going to have happened is you'll be able to see now, as I started to say before. I as president is going to invest that $600 billion that we spend in government contracts, only on those things that in fact also are not only made in America, but building an infrastructure that's clean and new.

BIDEN: And what we have to do is focus on the transmission of energy across the country from areas relating to solar and wind. The reason is that they have not, that has not been mastered yet. I met a lot of people in Silicon Valley. The battery technology is increasing significantly so you're going to be able to have, for example, solar on your home and a battery the, this by this by this, as I'm showing you here in your basement. So when the sun doesn't shine for five days, you still have enough energy. So, we're making significant progress.

BIDEN: The other thing we're going to do is provide an awful lot of work. It's estimated to put close to a million people to work by weatherizing four million buildings and two million homes, because we'll save tons and tons of energy or billions of barrels of energy over time. And at the same time provide significant employment and a good union wages, prevailing wages.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me stick on fracking for a second day. You said you don't want to ban fracking. As you know, it's an important issue here in Pennsylvania. Not everyone buys your denial. A member of the Boilermakers Local 154 Shawn Steffee was quoted in the New York Times today saying "You can't have it both ways." It says, "You can't meet your goal to end fossil fuels without ending fracking." What do you say to people like Shawn who doubt your denial because they think you want to keep that promise ?

BIDEN: Boilermaker's overwhelming endorsement. Okay? So, the Boilermakers Union has endorsed me because I sat down with them and went in a great detail with leadership exactly what I would do, number one. Number two, what I would do is I would giving tax breaks and subsidizing oil. We don't need to subsidize oil any longer, number one. We should stop that and save billions of dollars over time. What I would also do with regard to there's no, the difference between me and the new green deal, they say automatically by 2030 we're going to be carbon free. Not possible.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So, are you for or against it? You say you're not for it, but in your website, it says you call it a crucial framework, the green deal.

BIDEN: My deal is a crucial framework, but not the new green deal. The new green deal calls for elimination of all non renewable energy by 2030. You can't get there. You're going to need to be able to transition, George, to be able to transition to get to the place where we invest in new technologies that allow us to do things that get us to a place where we get to net zero emission, including in agriculture. I've laid out a detailed plan. We should be taking the plan where we allow significant more land to be put in conservation, plant deep rooted plants which absorb carbon from the air and in fact, pay farmers to do it. We can do things like pelletize all the chicken manure and all the horse manure and cow manure, and take out the methane and use it as fertilizer and make a lot of money doing it.

BIDEN: For example, right now, down in ... And people when I say that, they wonder what I'm talking about. The biggest carbon sink in the world is the Amazon. More carbon absorbed from the air diminishing global warming in the Amazon than all the carbon emitted on a yearly basis from the United States of America from all vehicles on all means. So we have to use our imaginations. We have to move in the direction as well providing for electric vehicles. Electric vehicles will save billions of gallons of oil, estimated, not me, Wall street, one million automobile jobs, but we're lagging me. I mean, we're not investing. We're not doing any of the research.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Got to take another quick break. We'll be right back. Welcome back to our town hall with Former Vice President Joe Biden. The next question comes from Mark Hoffman, Center Valley, Pennsylvania, conservative, who voted for Trump in 2016.

HOFFMAN: Welcome to Pennsylvania, Mr. Vice President.

BIDEN: Good to be back home. I'm from Pennsylvania.

HOFFMAN: Yes, I know. Scranton, right?

BIDEN: Yep.

HOFFMAN: So, pieces breaking out all over the world. Our troops are coming home. Serbia is talking to Kosovo and the Arabs and Israelis are talking peace which I believe is a modern day miracle what's going on. Does President Trump's foreign policy deserves some credit?

BIDEN: A little more, but not a whole lot. We find ourselves in a position where we're more isolated in the world than we've ever been. Our allies.

BIDEN: Were more isolated in the world than we ever have been. Our allies... Our go it alone, our America first has made America alone. You have Iran closer to having enough nuclear material to build a bomb. North Korea has more bombs and missiles available to it. We find ourselves where our NATO allies are publicly saying they can't count on us. We're in a situation as well, where in the far East, we find ourselves, in the Western Pacific, where we're isolated as well. You have Japan and South Korea at odds with one another. China is making moves. So I would say, we're find ourselves less secure than we've been. I do compliment the president on the deal with Israel recently. But if you take a look, we're not very well trusted around the world. When 17 major nations in the world were asked who they trust more, who's a better leader, and the president came in behind both, the international survey, both behind Putin, as well as Xi. And look what Putin is doing. You have bounties on American militaries heads in Afghanistan. They have more people there now, by the way, than when we left in Afghanistan. And we find ourselves in a situation where he's talked to Putin six times, hadn't said a word to him. And NATO is on the risk of beginning crack because they doubt whether we're there. You see what's happened in everything from Belarus to Poland, to Hungary, and the rise of totalitarian regimes in the world. And as well as, this president embraces all the thugs in the world. He's best friends with the leader of North Korea, sending love letters.

BIDEN: He doesn't take on Putin in any way. He's learned the art of the steal from the art of the deal by Xi and China. So I would respectfully suggest, no, there is no plan, no coherent plan for foreign policy. We've been most effective as a world leader, in my humble opinion, not just by the exercise of our power. We're the most powerful nation in the world, but the power of our example. That's what's led the rest of the world to follow us on almost everything. He's pulled out of almost every international organization. He gets laughed at, literally, not figuratively, when he goes to the United Nations. It's not about the president, per se. It's about the nation and the lack of respect that's shown to us.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Want to get one more question in this segment, and it comes from Mieke Haeck. She's from State College, Pennsylvania. This is your first presidential election that you're vote in.

HAECK: It is.

BIDEN: Hi, Mieke. How are you?

HAECK: I'm good. Thank you. I'm the proud mom of two girls, 8 and 10. My youngest daughter is transgender. The Trump administration has attacked the rights of transgender people, banning them from military service, weakening non-discrimination protections, and even removing the word transgender from some government websites. How will you, as president, reverse this dangerous and discriminatory agenda and ensure that the lives and rights of LGBTQ people are protected under US law?

BIDEN: I will flat out just change the law. Eliminate those executive orders, number one. You may recall, I'm the guy who said... I was raised by a man who, I remember, I was being dropped off. My dad was a high school educated, well-read man who was a really decent guy. And I was being dropped off to get an application in the center of our city, Wilmington, Delaware, the corporate capital of the world at the time. I'm getting out to get an application to be a lifeguard in the African-American community, because there was a big swimming pool complex.

BIDEN: And these two men, well-dressed, leaned up and hugged one another and kissed one another. I'm getting out of the car at the light, and I turned to my dad. My dad looked me. He said, "Joey, it's simple. They love each other." The idea that an 8 year old child or a 10 year old child decides, "I decided I want to be transgender. That's what I think I'd like to be. It'd make my life a lot easier." There should be zero discrimination. And what's happening is too many transgender women of color are being murdered. They're being murdered. I think it's up to, now, 17. Don't hold me to that number, but it's... It's higher now?

HAECK: Yeah.

BIDEN: And that's just this year. And so I promise you, there is no reason to suggest that there should be any right denied your daughter, or daughters, whichever, one or two.

HAECK: One.

BIDEN: One. Your daughter, that your other daughter has a right to be and do. None. Zero. And by the way, my son Beau, who passed away, was the attorney general of the state of Delaware. He was the guy who got the first transgender law passed in the state of Delaware. And because of a young man who became a woman, who worked for him in the attorney general's office.

STEPHANOPOULOS: We've got one more segment coming up. Thank you.

BIDEN: And I'm proud of her.

STEPHANOPOULOS: We'll be right back.

SPEAKER: The vice president and the people, a special edition of 2020. Here again, George Stephanopoulos.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And welcome back to our town hall with former Vice President Joe Biden. The next question comes from Keenan Wilson, Narberth, Pennsylvania, Democrat.

WILSON: Good evening. You say that you committed to entering this race after the events of Charlottesville in 2017. I assume that that feeling that prompted you to run will not go away once the results are determined. So hypothetically, if you lose, how will you use your platform to urge President Donald Trump, and those rallying behind him, towards the ideals of a more perfect union?

BIDEN: Well, to be very honest with you, I think that's very hard. Things have not let themselves to him learning from what's happened, what's gone before. Instead of being chastened by being one of the few presidents, the only president to be impeached and then have a member of his own party vote to expel him, it emboldened him. But what I will do... Hopefully, I'll go back to being a professor at the University of Pennsylvania. And making the case that I've been made, and at the Biden Institute at the University of Delaware, focusing on these same issues, relating to what constitutes decency and honor in this country. It's the thing that got me involved in public life to begin with. As a kid, I'd moved from Scranton, where there were no African-Americans and moved down to Claymont, Delaware.

BIDEN: And in Delaware we have the eight largest Black population, as a percent of population. It was an epiphany for me seeing what was going on, and I got deeply involved. I'm no great shakes. I wasn't John Lewis. I don't mean to imply that. But it's the thing that's motivated... My dad used to have an expression for real. He said, "Everyone's entitled to be treated with dignity. Everybody." And it was real. Everybody is. And so whether I'm a defeated candidate for president back teaching or I'm elected president, it is a major element of everything that I'm about, because it reflects who we are as a nation.

BIDEN: Every single solitary generation, the dial has moved closer and closer and more and more to inclusion. And we are a country that is a country of slaves who came here 400 years ago, Indigenous people, and everyone else is an immigrant. And we're a diverse country. And unless we are able to treat people equally, we're just never going to meet our potential. But I think the American people want to see that happen. I think they're ready to see it happen. And I'd tell you one thing, if I'm elected president, you will not hear me race baiting. You'll not hear me dividing. You'll hear me trying to unify, and bring people together. When I said I was running because I wanted to unify the country, people said, "Well, there are the old days." We better be able to do it again.

WILSON: Agreed.

BIDEN: We'd better be able to do it again.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. Vice President, if you lose, what will that say to you about where America is today?

BIDEN: Well, it could say I'm a lousy candidate, and I didn't do a good job. But I hope that it doesn't say that we are as racially, ethnically, and religiously at odds with one another as it appears the president wants us to be. Usually, the president's in my view, with all due respect, has been divide and conquer. The way he does better if he splits us. There's division. And I think people need hope. Look, George, I've never been more optimistic about the prospect for this country than I am today. And I really mean that. I think the people are ready. They understand what's at stake, and it's not about Democrat or Republican. If I get elected, I'm running as a proud Democrat, but I'm going to be an American president. I'm going to take care of those who voted against me, as well as those who voted for me, for real. That's a presence too. We got to heal this nation, because we have the greatest opportunity to any country in the world to own the 21st century. And we can't do it divided.

STEPHANOPOULOS: One more break. We'll be right back. And we are wrapping up our town hall with former Vice President Joe Biden. Mr. Vice President, as you know, President Trump had a town hall meeting tonight, as well. During that town hall meeting, he was asked several times whether he took a COVID test the day of your last debate. You're supposed to have another debate a week from tonight. Just two quick questions. Do you expect that debate to happen? Will you demand that President Trump take a test that day and that it be negative before you debate?

BIDEN: Yeah. And by the way, before I came up here, I took another test. I've been taking them every day, the deep test, the ones that go in most. Because if I had not passed that test, I didn't want to come here and expose anybody. And I just think it's just decency, to be able to determine whether or not you're clear. I'm less concerned about me, but then the guys with the cameras, the people working in the Secret Service guys you drive up with, all those people. And so, yes, I believe he will do that. Look, I'm going to abide by what the commission rules call for. I was prepared to debate him remotely, which was supposed to happen. And he said he wouldn't do that, a virtual debate, or a town hall. He didn't want to do that. I didn't set those rules. The commission set the rules. So whatever rules they set, I'm confident that the Cleveland Clinic is the one overseeing it. I think they're going to not let happen what happened last time. They're going to demand that it's safe.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But you expect to be there?

BIDEN: I expect to be there.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. Vice President, thank you for your time tonight. Thanks to all the questioners here. It was really terrific questions. I think you did a service to our democracy tonight. Thank you very much. I want to go back to my colleague, David Muir, in New York.

WELKER: Good evening, everyone. Good evening. Thank you so much for being here. It is such an honor for me to moderate this debate tonight, the final debate. I want to welcome the first family and the first lady. We're so glad and thankful that you are feeling better. I want to welcome the Biden family, Dr. Jill Biden. Thank you all for being here tonight. We are so excited. We're looking forward to a really robust discussion. And the only thing I would reiterate are the CPD guidelines that when the candidates are talking, please hold any applause or any other reactions. Except of course, when they walk out, make sure you cheer and loud and applause so that everyone can hear you. Thank you for having me. This is really the honor of a lifetime. I am going to sit down and just get organized and get settled and the show will start very soon. Thank you for being here. . Good evening from Belmont University in Nashville, Tennessee. I'm Kristen Welker of NBC News. And I welcome you to the final 2020 presidential debate between President Donald J. Trump and former vice president Joe Biden. Tonight's debate is sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates. It is conducted under health and safety protocols designed by the Commission's health security advisor. The audience here in the hall has promised to remain silent. No cheers, boos, or other interruptions, except right now, as we welcome to the stage, former vice president Joe Biden and President Donald J. Trump.

TRUMP: How are you doing? How are you?

WELKER: And I do want to say a very good evening to both of you. This debate will cover six major topics. At the beginning of each section, each candidate will have two minutes, uninterrupted, to answer my first question. The Debate Commission will then turn on their microphone only when it is their turn to answer. And the Commission will turn it off exactly when the two minutes have expired. After that, both microphones will remain on. But on behalf of the voters, I'm going to ask you to please speak one at a time.

WELKER: The goal is for you to hear each other and for the American people to hear every word of what you both have to say. And so with that, if you're ready, let's start. And we will begin with the fight against the coronavirus. President Trump, the first question is for you. The country is heading into a dangerous new phase. More than 40,000 Americans are in the hospital tonight with COVID, including record numbers here in Tennessee. And since the two of you last shared a stage, 16,000 Americans have died from COVID. So please be specific. How would you lead the country during this next stage of the coronavirus crisis? Two minutes, uninterrupted.

WELKER: ... during this next stage of the coronavirus crisis. Two minutes uninterrupted.

TRUMP: So as you know, 2.2 million people modeled out, were expected to die. We closed up the greatest economy in the world in order to fight this horrible disease that came from China. It's a worldwide pandemic. It's all over the world. You see the spikes in Europe and many other places right now. If you notice, the mortality rate is down 85%. The excess mortality rate is way down and much lower than almost any other country. And we're fighting it and we're fighting it hard. There is a spike. There was a spike in Florida and it's now gone.

TRUMP: There was a very big spike in Texas. It's now gone. There was a very big spike in Arizona. It's now gone. And there was some spikes and surges and other places, they will soon be gone. We have a vaccine that's coming. It's ready. It's going to be announced within weeks. And it's going to be delivered. We have Operation Warp Speed, which is the military is going to distribute the vaccine.

TRUMP: I can tell you from personal experience, I was in the hospital. I had it and I got better. And I will tell you that I had something that they gave me, a therapeutic, I guess they would call it. Some people could say it was a cure, but I was in for a short period of time. And I got better very fast or I wouldn't be here tonight. And now they say I'm immune. Whether it's four months or a lifetime, nobody's been able to say that, but I'm immune. More and more people are getting better. We have a problem that's a worldwide problem. This is a worldwide problem, but I've been congratulated by the heads of many countries on what we've been able to do. If you take a look at what we've done in terms of goggles and masks and gowns and everything else, and in particular ventilators we're now making ventilators all over the world, thousands and thousands a month distributing them all over the world. It will go away. And as I say, we're rounding the turn. We're rounding the corner. It's going away.

WELKER: Okay. Former Vice President Biden to you. How would you lead the country out of this crisis? You have two minutes uninterrupted.

BIDEN: 220,000 Americans dead. You hear nothing else I say tonight, hear this. Anyone who is responsible for not taking control. In fact, not saying I take no responsibility initially. Anyone is responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president of the United States of America. We're in a situation where there are a thousand deaths a day now. A thousand deaths a day. And there are over 70,000 new cases per day. Compared to what's going on in Europe as the New England Medical Journal said, they're starting from a very low rate. We're starting from a very high rate.

BIDEN: The expectation is we'll have another 200,000 Americans dead between now and the end of the year. If we just wore these masks, the president's own advisors have told him, we can save a 100,000 lives. And we're in a circumstance where the president thus far and still has no plan, no comprehensive plan.

BIDEN: What I would do is make sure we have everyone encouraged to wear a mask all the time. I would make sure we move into the direction of rapid testing, investing in rapid testing. I would make sure that we set up national standards as to how to open up schools and open up businesses so they can be safe and give them the wherewithal, the financial resources to be able to do that.

BIDEN: We're in a situation now where the New England Medical Journal, one of the serious, most serious journals in the whole world said for the first time ever that the way this president has responded to this crisis has been absolutely tragic. And so folks, I will take care of this. I will end this. I will make sure we have a plan.

WELKER: President Trump, I'd like to follow up with you and your comments. You talked about taking a therapeutic, I assume you're referencing Regeneron. You also said a vaccine will be coming within weeks. Is that a guarantee?

TRUMP: No, it's not a guarantee, but it will be by the end of the year. But I think it has a good chance. There are two companies, I think within a matter of weeks and it will be distributed very quickly.

WELKER: Can you tell us which companies?

TRUMP: Johnson & Johnson is doing very well. Moderna is doing very well. Pfizer is doing very well and we have numerous others. Then we also have others that we're working on very closely with other countries, in particular Europe.

WELKER: Let me follow up with you and because this is new information. You have set a vaccine is coming soon within weeks now. Your own officials say, "It could take well into 2021 at the earliest for enough Americans to get vaccinated." And even then they say, "The country will be wearing masks and distancing into 2022." Is your timeline realistic?

TRUMP: No, I think my timeline is going to be more accurate. I don't know that they're counting on the military the way I do, but we have our generals lined up, one in particular that's the head of logistics and this is a very easy distribution for him. He's ready to go. As soon as we have the vaccine and we expect to have a 100 million vials. As soon as we have the vaccine, he's ready to go.

WELKER: Vice President Biden, your reaction. And just 40% of Americans say they would definitely agree to take a coronavirus vaccine if it was approved by the government. What steps would you take to give Americans confidence in a vaccine if it were approved?

BIDEN: Make sure it's totally transparent. Have the scientists of the world see it, know it, look at it, go through all the processes. And by the way, this is the same fellow who told you, "This is going to end by Easter" last time. This is the same fellow who told you that, "Don't worry, we're going to end this by the summer." We're about to go into a dark winter, a dark winter and he has no clear plan. And there's no prospect that there's going to be a vaccine available for the majority of the American people before the middle of next year.

WELKER: President Trump, your reaction. He says, you have no plan.

TRUMP: I don't think we're going to have a dark winter at all. We're opening up our country. We've learned and studied and understand the disease, which we didn't at the beginning. When I closed and banned China from coming in heavily infected and then ultimately Europe, but China was in January. Months later, he was saying I was xenophobic. I did it too soon. Now he's saying, "Oh, I should have moved quicker," but he didn't move quicker. He was months behind me, many months behind me.

TRUMP: And frankly, he ran the H1N1 swine flu and it was a total disaster. Far less lethal, but it was a total disaster. Had that had this kind of numbers, 700,000 people would be dead right now, but it was a far less lethal disease. Look, his own person who ran that for him, who, as you know, was his chief of staff said, "It was catastrophic. It was horrible. We didn't know what we were doing." Now he comes up and he tells us how to do this.

TRUMP: Also, everything that he said about the way every single move that he said we should make, that's what we've done. We've done all of it. But he was way behind us.

WELKER: Vice President Biden, your response.

BIDEN: My response is he is xenophobic, but not because he shutdown access from China. And he did it late after 40 countries had already done that. In addition to that, what he did, he made sure that we had 44 people that were in there in China trying to get the Wuhan to determine what exactly the source was. What did the president say in January? He said, " No." He said, "He's being transparent. The president of China is being transparent. We owe him a debt of gratitude. We have to thank him."

BIDEN: And then what happened was we started talking about using the Defense Act to make sure we go out and get whatever is needed out there to protect people. And again, I go back to this. He had nothing, he did virtually nothing. And then he gets out of the hospital and he talks about, "Oh, don't worry. It's all going to be over soon." Come on. There's not another serious scientist in the world who thinks it's going to be over soon.

WELKER: President Trump, your reaction?

TRUMP: I didn't say over soon. I say we're learning to live with it. We have no choice. We can't lock ourselves up in a basement like Joe does. He has the ability to lock himself up. I don't know. He's obviously made a lot of money someplace, but he has this thing about living in a basement. People can't do that. By the way I as the president couldn't do that. I'd love to put myself in the basement or in a beautiful room in the White House and go away for a year and a half until it disappears. I can't do that.

TRUMP: And Kirsten, every meeting I had, every meeting I had and I'd meet a lot of families, including gold star families and military families. Every meeting I had and I had to meet them, I had to. It would be horrible to have canceled everything. I said, "This is dangerous and you catch it." And I caught it. I learned a lot. I learned a lot. Great doctors, great hospitals. And now I recovered. 99.9 of young people recover. 99% of people recover. We have to recover.

TRUMP: 99% of people recover. We have to recover. We can't close up our nation. We have to open our school and we can't close up our nation, or you're not going to have a nation.

WELKER: And, of course, the CDC has said young people can get sick with COVID-19 and can pass it. Vice President Biden, I want to talk broadly about strategy though.

BIDEN: Can I respond to that?

WELKER: 30 seconds, please. Then I have a question.

BIDEN: Number one, he says that we're learning to live with it. People are learning to die with it. You folks home will have an empty chair at the kitchen table this morning. That man or wife going to bed tonight and reaching over to try to touch, there out of habit, where their wife or husband was, is gone. Learning to live with it. Come on. We're dying with it, because he's never said. See, you said, "It's dangerous." When's the last time? Is it really dangerous still? Are we dangerous. You tell the people it's dangerous now. What should they do about the danger? And you say, "I take no responsibility."

WELKER: Let me talk about your Tuesday.

TRUMP: Excuse me. I take full responsibility. It's not my fault that it came here. It's China's fault. And you know what? It's not Joe's fault that it came here either. It's China's fault. They kept it from going into the rest of China for the most part, but they didn't keep it from coming out to the world, including Europe and ourselves.

WELKER: Vice President Biden.

BIDEN: The fact is that when we knew it was coming, when it hit, what happened? What did the President say? He said, "Don't worry. It's going to go away. It'll be gone by Easter. Don't worry. Warm weather. Don't worry. Maybe inject bleach." He said he was kidding when he said that, but a lot of people thought it was serious. A whole range of things the President has said, even today, he thinks we are in control. We're about to lose 200,000 more people.

WELKER: President Trump.

TRUMP: Look, perhaps just to finish this, I was kidding on that, but just to finish this, when I closed he said I shouldn't have closed. And that went on for months. Nancy Pelosi said the same thing. She was dancing on the streets in Chinatown, in San Francisco. But when I closed, he said, "This is a terrible thing, you xenophobic." I think he called me racist even, because I was closing it to China. Now he says I should have closed it earlier. Joe, it doesn't.

BIDEN: I didn't say either of those things.

TRUMP: You certainly did. You certainly did.

BIDEN: I talked about his xenophobia in a different context. It wasn't about closing the border to Chinese coming to the United States.

WELKER: All right, I want to talk about both of your different strategies to handling this.

TRUMP: He thought I shouldn't have closed the border, that's obvious.

WELKER: Do you want to respond to that quickly, Vice President Biden?

BIDEN: No.

WELKER: Okay. Let's talk about your different strategies toward dealing with this. Mr. Vice President you suggested you would support new shutdowns if scientists recommended it. What do you say to Americans who are fearful that the cost of shutdowns, the impact on the economy, the higher rates of hunger, depression, domestic, and substance abuse outweighs the risk of exposure to the virus?

BIDEN: What I would say is, I'm going to shut down the virus, not the country. It's his ineptitude that caused the country to have to shut down in large part, why businesses have gone under, why schools are closed, why so many people have lost their living, and why they're concerned. Those other concerns are real. That's why he should have been, instead of in a sand trap at his golf course, he should have been negotiating with Nancy Pelosi and the rest of the Democrats and Republicans about what to do about the acts they were passing for billions of dollars to make sure people had the capacity.

WELKER: But you haven't ruled out more shut downs?

BIDEN: Oh, well, no. I'm not shutting down today, but there are ... Look, you need standards. The standard is, if you have a reproduction rate in a community that's above a certain level, everybody says, "Slow up. More social distancing. Do not open bars and do not open gymnasiums. Do not open until you get this under control, under more control." But when you do open, give the people the capacity to be able to open and have the capacity to do it safely. For example, schools. Schools, they need a lot of money to be open. They need to deal with ventilation systems. They need to deal with smaller classes, more teachers, more pods, and he's refused to support that money, or at least up to now.

WELKER: Let's talk about schools, President Trump.

TRUMP: I think we have to respond, if I might.

WELKER: Please. And then I have a follow-up.

TRUMP: Thank you, and I appreciate that. Look, all he does is talk about shut downs. But forget about him. His Democrat Governors, Cuomo in New York, you look at what's going on in California, you look at Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Democrats, Democrats all, they're shut down so tight and they're dying. They're dying. And he supports all these people. All he talks about is shut downs. No, we're not going to shut down. And we have to open our schools. And it's like, as an example, I have a young son, he also tested positive. By the time I spoke to the doctor the second time, he was fine. It just went away. Young people, I guess, it's their immune system.

WELKER: Let me follow up with you, President Trump. You've demanded schools open in person and insist they can do it safely. But just yesterday, Boston became the latest city to move its public school system entirely online after a coronavirus spike. What is your message to parents who worry that sending their children to school will endanger not only their kids but also their teachers and family?

TRUMP: I want to open the schools. The transmittal rate to the teachers is very small. But I want to open the schools. We have to open our country. We're not going to have a country. You can't do this. We can't keep this country closed. This is a massive country with a massive economy. People are losing their jobs. They're committing suicide. There's depression, alcohol, drugs at a level that nobody's ever seen before. There's abuse, tremendous abuse. We have to open our country. I've said it often, the cure cannot be worse than the problem itself, and that's what's happening. And he wants to close down. He'll close down the country if one person in our massive bureaucracy says we should close it down.

WELKER: Vice President Biden, your response.

BIDEN: Simply not true. We ought to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. We ought to be able to safely open, but they need resources to open? You need to be able to, for example, if you're going to open a business, have social distancing within the business. You need to have, if you have a restaurant, you need to have plexiglass dividers so people cannot infect one another. You need to be in a position where you can take testing rapidly and know whether the person is in fact infected. You need to be able to trace. You need to be able to provide all the resources that are needed to do this. And that is not inconsistent with saying that we're going to make sure that we're going to open safely. And by the way, all you teachers out there, not that many of you are going to die, so don't worry about it. So don't worry about it. Come on.

WELKER: President Trump, let me follow up with you quickly.

TRUMP: By the way, I will say this, If you go and look at what's happened to New York, it's a ghost town. It's a ghost town. And when you talk about plexiglass, these are restaurants that had dying. These are businesses with no money. Putting up plexiglass is unbelievably expensive, and it's not the answer. I mean, you're going to sit there in a cubicle wrapped around with plastic. These are businesses that are dying, Joe. You can't do that to people. You just can't. Take a look at New York and what's happened to my wonderful city. For so many years, I loved it. It was vibrant. It's dying. Everyone's leaving New York.

WELKER: Vice President Biden.

BIDEN: Take a look at what New York has done in terms of turning the curve down, in terms of the number of people dying. And I don't look at this in terms of the way he does, blue states and red states. They're all the United States. And look at the states that are having such a spike in the coronavirus. They're the red states, they're the states in the Midwest, they're the states in the upper Midwest. That's where the spike is occurring significantly. But they're all Americans. They're all Americans. And what we have to do is say, wear these masks, number one. Make sure we get the help that the businesses need. That money's already been passed to do that. It's been out there since the beginning of the summer, and nothing's happened.

TRUMP: Kristen, New York has lost more than 40,000 people, 11,000 people in nursing homes.

WELKER: President Trump, what about.

TRUMP: When you say spike, take a look at what's happening in Pennsylvania where they've had it closed. Take a look at what's happening with your friend in Michigan, where her husband's the only one allowed to do anything. It's been like a prison. Now, it was just ruled unconstitutional. Take a look at North Carolina, they're having spikes and they've been closed, and they're getting killed financially. We can't let that happen, Joe. You can't let that happen. We have to open up. And we understand the disease. We have to protect our seniors. We have to protect our elderly. We have to protect especially our seniors with heart problems and diabetes problems. And we will protect. We have the best testing in the world by far. That's why we have so many cases.

WELKER: Let me follow up with you before we move on to our next section. President Trump, this week, you called Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's best known infectious disease expert "a disaster." You described him and other medical experts as "idiots." If you're not listening to them, who are you listening to?

TRUMP: I'm listening to all of them, including Anthony. I get along very well with Anthony.

TRUMP: ... think to all of them, including Anthony. I get along very well with Anthony, but he did say, "Don't wear masks." He did say, as you know, "This is not going to be a problem." I think he's a Democrat, but that's okay. He said, "This is not going to be a problem. We are not going to have a problem at all." When Joe says that I said, Anthony Fauci said, and others, and many others. And I'm not knocking him, nobody knew. Look, nobody knew what this thing was. Nobody knew where it was coming from, what it was. We've learned a lot. But Anthony said "Don't wear masks," now he wants to wear masks. Anthony also said, if you look back, exact words, here's his exact words. "This is no problem. This is going to go away soon." So he's allowed to make mistakes. He happens to be a good person.

WELKER: Vice President Biden, your response quickly, and then we're going to move on to the next section.

BIDEN: My response is that think about what the President knew in January and didn't tell the American people. He was told this was a serious virus that spread in the air, and it was much worse, much worse, than the flu. He went on record and said to one of your colleagues, recorded, that in fact he knew how dangerous it was but he didn't want to tell us. He didn't want to tell us because he didn't want us to panic. He didn't want us... Americans don't panic. He panicked. But guess what, in the meantime, we find out in the New York Times the other day, that in fact his folks went to Wall Street and said, "This is a really dangerous thing." And a memo out of that meeting - not from his administration, but from some of the brokers - said, "Sell short, because we've got to get moving. It's a dangerous problem."

TRUMP: Well, this is what I.

WELKER: I'm going to give you 30 seconds to respond and then we're going to move on.

TRUMP: I don't know. Somebody went through Wall Street. You're the one that takes all the money from Wall Street. I don't take it.

BIDEN: I haven't.

TRUMP: Joe, you have raised a lot of money, tremendous amounts of money. And every time you raise money deals are made, Joe. I could raise so much more money. As President, and as somebody that knows most of those people, I could call the heads of Wall Street, the heads of every company in America. I would blow away every record. But I don't want to do that because it puts me in a bad position. And then you bring up Wall Street? You shouldn't be bringing up Wall Street, because you're the one that takes the money from Wall Street, not me. I could blow away your records like you wouldn't believe. We don't need money. We have plenty of money. In fact, we beat Hillary Clinton with a tiny fraction of the money that she was able to

WELKER: All right, gentlemen, we're going to move on.

TRUMP: Don't tell me about

BIDEN: Average contribution, $43.

WELKER: All right. We're going to move on to our next section, which is national security. And I do want to start with the security of our elections and some breaking news from overnight. Just last night, top intelligence officials confirmed again that both Russia and Iran are working to influence this election. Both countries have obtained US voter registration information, these officials say, and Iran sent intimidating messages to Florida voters. This question goes to you, Mr. Vice President. What would you do to put an end to this threat? You have two minutes, uninterrupted.

BIDEN: I made it clear and I asked everyone else to take the pledge. I made it clear that any country, no matter who it is, that interferes in American elections will pay a price. They will pay a price. And it's been overwhelmingly clear this election - I won't even get into the last one - this election, that Russia has been involved, China's been involved to some degree, and now we learn that Iran is involved. They will pay a price if I'm elected. They're interfering with American sovereignty. That's what's going on right now. They're interfering with American sovereignty.

BIDEN: And to the best of my knowledge, I don't think the President has said anything to Putin about it. I don't think he's talking to them a lot. I don't think he's said a word. I don't know why he hasn't said a word to Putin about it, and I don't know what he has recently said, if anything, to the Iranians. My guess is he'd probably be more outspoken with regard to the Iranians.

BIDEN: But the point is this, folks. We are in a situation where we have foreign countries trying to interfere in the outcome of our election. His own National Security Advisor told him that what is happening with his buddy... Well, I shouldn't... Well, I will. His buddy Rudy Giuliani. He's being used as a Russian pawn. He's being fed information that is Russian that is not true. And then what happens? Nothing happens. And then you find out that everything that's going on here, about Russia is wanting to make sure that I do not get elected the next President of the United States, because they know I know them, and they know me.

BIDEN: I don't understand why this President is unwilling to take on Putin when he's actually paying bounties to kill American soldiers in Afghanistan, when he's engaged in activities that are trying to destabilize all of NATO. I don't know why he doesn't do it, but it's worth asking the question. Why isn't that being done? Any country that interferes with us will, in fact, pay a price, because they're affecting our sovereignty.

WELKER: President Trump, same question to you. Let me ask the question. You're going to have two minutes to respond. For two elections in a row now, there has been substantial interference from foreign adversaries. What would you do in your next term to put an end to this? Two minutes, uninterrupted.

TRUMP: Well, let me respond to the first part, as Joe answered. Joe got $3.5 million from Russia and it came through Putin, because he was very friendly with the former mayor of Moscow and it was the mayor of Moscow's wife. And you got $3.5 million. Your family got $3.5 million. And someday you're going to have to explain, why did you get three and a half? I never got any money from Russia. I don't get money from Russia.

TRUMP: Now, about your thing last night. I knew all about that. And through John - who is John Ratcliffe, who is fantastic, DNI - he said the one thing that's common to both of them.

TRUMP: They both want you to lose because there has been nobody tougher to Russia between the sanctions, nobody tougher than me on Russia, between the sanctions, between all of what I've done with NATO. I've got the NATO countries to put up an extra $130 billion going to $420 billion a year. That's to guard against Russia. I sold, while he was selling pillows and sheets, I sold tank busters to Ukraine. There has been nobody tougher on Russia than Donald Trump.

TRUMP: And I'll tell you, they were so bad. They took over the submarine port, you remember that very well, during your term, during you and Barack Obama. They took over a big part of what should have been Ukraine. You handed it to them. But you were getting a lot of money from Russia. They were paying you a lot of money, and they probably still are. But now, with what came out today, it's even worse. All of the emails, the emails, the horrible emails of the kind of money that you were raking in, you and your family. And Joe, you were vice-president when some of this was happening, and it should have never happened. And I think you owe an explanation to the American people. Why is it, somebody just had a news conference a little while ago who was essentially supposed to work with you and your family, but what he said was damning. And regardless of me, I think you have to clean it up and talk to the American people. Maybe you can do it right now.

WELKER: Vice-President Biden, you may respond - and then I do want to follow up on the election security.

BIDEN: I have not taken a penny from any foreign source ever in my life. We learned that this president paid 50 times the tax in China as a secret bank account with China, does business in China, and in fact, is talking about me taking money? I have not taken a single penny from any country, whatsoever, ever, number one.

BIDEN: Number two, this is a president... I have released all of my tax returns, 22 years, go look at them, 22 years of my tax return. You have not released a single solitary year of your tax return. What are you hiding? Why are you unwilling? The foreign countries are paying you a lot. Russia's paying you a lot. China's paying you a lot on your hotels and all your businesses all around the country, all around the world. And China's building a new road to a new golf course you have overseas. So, what's going on here? Release your tax return or stop talking about corruption.

WELKER: President Trump, your response.

TRUMP: First of all, I called my accountants, underwrote it, I'm going to release them as soon as we can. I want to do it. And it'll show how successful, how great this company is. But much more importantly than that, people were saying $750. I asked them a week ago, I said, "What did I pay?" They said, "Sir, you prepaid tens of millions of dollars." I prepaid my tax, over the last number of years, tens of millions of dollars, I prepaid, because at some point, they think it's an estimate. They think I may have to pay tax. So I already prepaid it. Nobody told me that. Nobody told you that.

WELKER: Did your accountant tell you

TRUMP: Excuse me. And it wasn't written. Whenever they write this, they keep talking about $750, which I think is a filing fee, but let me just tell you, I prepaid millions and millions of dollars in taxes, number one.

TRUMP: Number two, I don't make money from China. You do. I don't make money from Ukraine. You do. I don't make money from Russia. You made $3.5 million, Joe, and your son gave you, they even have a statement that we have to give 10% to the big man. You're the big man, I think. I don't know, maybe you're not, but you're the big man, I think. Your son said we have to give 10% to the big men. Joe, what's that all about? It's terrible.

WELKER: All right, gentlemen. I want to ask you both some questions about all of this, but...

BIDEN: I have to respond to that.

WELKER: I'm going to let you both respond very quickly. You just said you spoke to your accountant about potentially releasing your taxes, did he tell you when you can release them? Do you have a deadline for when you're going to release them to the American people?

TRUMP: As soon as the auditors finish. I get treated worse than the tea party got treated, because I have a lot of people in there .

WELKER: .

TRUMP: ... deep down in the IRS, they treat me horribly. We made a deal, it was all settled until I decide to run for president. I get treated very badly by the IRS, very unfairly, but we had a deal all done. As soon as we're completed with the deal, I want to release it, but I have paid millions and millions of dollars and it's worse than paying. I paid in advance. It's called prepaying your taxes. I paid 

WELKER: Okay. I want to ask you both about questions regarding your potential foreign entanglements and questions that have been raised to give you both a chance to talk about this more broadly. Respond very quickly, and then I'll get to my question.

BIDEN: Why did he... he's been saying this for four years, show us, just show us, stop playing around. You've been saying for four years you're going to release your taxes.

TRUMP: Everybody knows.

BIDEN: Nobody knows, Mr. President. What they do know is you're not paying your taxes, or you're paying taxes that are so low, when last time he said, what he paid, he said, I only pay that little because I'm smart. I know how to game the system. Come on. Come on, folks.

TRUMP: So...

WELKER: President Trump, and then I want to get to two questions to both of you on this.

BIDEN: Sure.

TRUMP: I was put through a phony witch hunt for three years. It started before I even got elected. They spied of my campaign. No president should ever have to go through what I went through. Let me just say this, Mueller and 18 angry Democrats and FBI agents all over the place spent $48 million. They went through everything I had, including my tax returns, and they found absolutely no collusion and nothing wrong. $48 million. I guarantee you, if I spent $1 million on you, Joe, I could find plenty wrong because the kind of things.

WELKER: All right.

TRUMP: ... that you've done and the kind of monies that your family has taken, I mean, your brother made money in Iraq.

WELKER: Let me...

TRUMP: ... millions of dollars. Your other brother made a fortune, and it's all through you, Joe. And they say you get some of it. And you do live very well, you have houses all over the place. You live very well.

WELKER: All right, gentlemen. Let me just ask some questions about all of this broadly. Vice-President Biden, there have been questions about the work your son has done in China and for a Ukrainian energy company when you were vice-president, in retrospect, was anything about those relationships inappropriate or unethical?

BIDEN: Nothing was unethical. Here's what the deal. With regard to Ukraine. We had this whole question about whether or not, because he was on the board, I later learned of Burisma, a company that somehow, I had done something wrong, yet every single solitary person, when he was going through his impeachment, testifying under oath, who work for him, said I did my job impeccably. I carried out U.S. policy, not one single solitary thing was out of line, not a single thing, number one.

BIDEN: Number two, the guy who got in trouble in Ukraine was this guy trying to bribe the Ukrainian government to say something negative about me, which they would not do and did not do because it never ever, ever happened. My son has not made money in terms of this thing about, what are you talking about, China. I have not had... the only guy who made money from China is this guy. He's the only one. Nobody else has made money from China.

WELKER: President Trump - let me ask my question to you

TRUMP: But could I just one thing?

WELKER: Very quickly.

TRUMP: His son didn't have a job for a long time, was, sadly, no longer in the military service, I won't get into that, and he didn't have a job. As soon as he became vice-president, Burisma, not the best reputation in the world, I hear they paid him $183,000 a month, listen to this, $183,000, and they gave him a $3 million upfront payment, and he had no energy experience. That's 100% dishonest.

WELKER: All right. I'm going to let the vice-president respond to that quickly, and then I need to get to a question to you. Very quickly, Mr. Vice-President.

BIDEN: No basis for that. Everybody investigated that. No one said anything he did was wrong in Ukraine.

WELKER: Okay. President Trump, this is for you. Since you took office, you've never divested from your business. You've personally promoted your properties abroad. A report this week, which was referenced, does indicate that your company has a bank account in China. So how can voters know that you don't have any foreign conflicts of interest?

TRUMP: I have many bank accounts and they're all listed and they're all over the place. I mean, I was a businessman doing business. The bank account you're referring to, which is, everybody knows about it, it's listed, the bank account was in 2013. That's what it was. It was opened. It was closed in 2015, I believe. And then I decided, because I was going to do... I was thinking about doing a deal in China, like millions of other people, I was thinking about it and I decided I'm not going to do it, didn't like it, I decided not to do it, had an account open and I closed it.

WELKER: Okay.

TRUMP: Excuse me. And then, unlike him where he's vice-president and he does business, I then decided to run for president after that. That was before. So I closed it before I even ran for president, let alone became president, big difference. He is the vice-president of the United States and his son, his brother, and his other brother are getting rich. They're like a vacuum cleaner. They're sucking up money 

WELKER: Okay. President Trump, thank you. We do need to move on.

BIDEN: Not true.

WELKER: I do want to ask you, Vice-President Biden, about China. Let's talk about China more broadly. There have, of course, President Trump has said that they should pay for not being fully transparent in regards to the coronavirus. If you were president, would you make China pay? And please be specific, what would that look like?

BIDEN: What I'd make China do is play by the international rules, not like he has done. He has caused the deficit of the China to go up, not down, with China, up, not down. We are making sure that in order to do business in China, you have to give all your intellectual property. You have to have a partner in China. It's 51%, we would not do that at all, number one.

BIDEN: Number two, we're in a situation where China would have to play by the rules internationally as well. When I met with Xi and when I was still vice-president, he said we're setting up air identification zones in the South China Sea. You can't fly through them. I said we're going to fly through them. We just flew B-52, B-1 bombers through it. We're not going to pay attention. They have to play by the rules. And what's he do? He embraces guys like the thugs, like in North Korea and the Chinese president and Putin and others, and he pokes his finger all of our friends, all of our allies. We make up only... we're 25%, 25% of the world's economy. We need to be having the rest of our friends with us saying to China, "These are the rules. You play by them, or you're going to pay the price for not paying by them economically."

BIDEN: That's the way I will run it, and that's what we did and upholding steel tariffs and a range of other things when we were president and vice-president.

WELKER: All right. Let's talk about North Korea.

TRUMP: No, no, no.

WELKER: Let...

TRUMP: Excuse me. No, I have to...

BIDEN: ... and Vice President.

WELKER: All right, let's talk about North Korea.

TRUMP: Excuse me. No, I have to respond to that.

WELKER: Okay. Very quickly, and then we're going to move on to North Korea.

TRUMP: His son walked out with a billion and a half dollars from China to ...

BIDEN: Not true.

TRUMP: ... after spending 10 minutes in office and being in Air Force Two. Number one. Number two, there's a very strong email talking about your family wanting to make $10 million a year for introductions.

WELKER: President Trump, on China policy.

BIDEN: That's not true.

WELKER: ... though, what specifically.

TRUMP: No, but wait a minute.

WELKER: What are you going to do, what specifically are you going to do to make China pay? You've said you're going to make them pay.

TRUMP: First of all, China is paying. They're paying billions and billions of dollars. I just gave $28 billion.

WELKER: New sanctions?

TRUMP: I just gave $28 billion to our farmers.

BIDEN: Tax payer's money.

TRUMP: It's what?

BIDEN: Taxpayer's money. Didn't come from China.

TRUMP: No, no. You know who the taxpayer is? It's called China.

BIDEN: Not true.

TRUMP: China pays 28 billion, and you know what they did to pay it, Joe? They devalued their currency and they also paid up, and you know got the money? Our farmers, our great farmers, because they were targeted. You never charged them anything. Also, I charged them 25% on dumped steel, because they were killing our steel industry. We were not going to have a steel industry.

WELKER: Okay.

TRUMP: And now we have a steel industry.

WELKER: Okay. Vice President Biden, your response, please.

BIDEN: My response is, look, there's a reason why he's bringing up all this malarkey. There's a reason for it. He doesn't want to talk about the substantive issues. It's not about his family and my family. It's about your family, and your family's hurting badly. If you're a middle-class family, you're getting hurt badly right now. You're sitting at the kitchen table this morning deciding, "Well, we can't get new tires. They're bald, because we have to wait another month or so." Or, "Are we going to be able to pay the mortgage?" Or, "Who's going to tell her she can't go back to community college?" They're the decisions you're making, and the middle-class families like I grew up in Scranton and Claymont, they're in trouble. We should be talking about your families, but that's the last thing he wants to talk about.

TRUMP: That is a typical statement.

BIDEN: I want to talk about North Korea.

TRUMP: Excuse me. Just for one second, please.

WELKER: 10 seconds, Mr. President. 10 seconds.

TRUMP: That's a typical political statement. Let's get off this China thing, and then he looks, "The family around the table, everything." Just a typical politician when I see that. I'm not a typical politician.

WELKER: Let's talk about North Korea now.

TRUMP: That's why I got elected. Let's get off the subject of China. Let's talk about sitting around the table. Come on, Joe. You could do better.

WELKER: We're going to talk about North Korea now. President Trump, you've met with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un three times. You've talked about your beautiful letters with him. You've touted the fact that there hasn't been a war or a long range missile test, and yet North Korea recently rolled out its biggest ever intercontinental ballistic missile and continues to develop its nuclear arsenal. Do you see that as a betrayal of the relationship you forged.

TRUMP: No.

WELKER: Just 30 seconds here because we need to get onto the next topic.

TRUMP: So when I met with Barack Obama, we sat in the White House, right at the beginning, had a great conversation. Was supposed to be 15 minutes and it was well over an hour. He said, "The biggest problem we have is North Korea." He indicated we will be in a war with North Korea. Guess what? It would be a nuclear war. And he does have plenty of nuclear capability. In the meantime, I have a very good relationship with him. Different kind of a guy, but he probably thinks the same thing about me. We have a different kind of a relationship. We have a very good relationship and there's no war. And about two months ago, he broke into a certain area. They said, "Oh, there's going to be trouble." I said, "No, they're not, because he's not going to do that." And I was right. Look, instead of being in a war where millions of people, Seoul is 25 miles away, millions and millions, 32 million people. Millions of people would be dead right now. We don't have a war and I have a good relationship.

WELKER: President Trump, that's 30 seconds. Vice President Biden to you. North Korea conducted four nuclear tests under the Obama administration. Why do you think you would be able to reign in this persistent threatening?

BIDEN: Because I'd make it clear, which we were making clear to China, they had to be part of the deal, because I made it clear as a spokesperson for the illustration when I went to China that I said, "Why are you moving your missile defense up so close? Why are you moving more forces here? Why are you continue to do military maneuvers with South Korea?" I said, "Because North Korea is a problem, and we're going to continue to do it so we can control them. We're going to make sure we can control them and make sure they can not hurt us. And so if you want to do something about it, step up and help. If not, it's going to continue." What has he done? He's legitimized North Korea. He's talked about his good buddy, who's a thug, a thug. And he talks about how we're better off. And they have much more capable missiles, able to reach us territory much more easily than they ever did before.

WELKER: Let me follow up with you, Vice President Biden. You've said you wouldn't meet with Kim Jong-un without preconditions. Are there any conditions under which you would meet with him?

BIDEN: On the condition that he would agree that he would be drawing down his nuclear capacity. The Korean Peninsula should be a nuclear free zone.

WELKER: All right. Let's move on to American families.

TRUMP: Kristen.

WELKER: Very quickly, 10 seconds, President Trump.

TRUMP: They tried to meet with him. He wouldn't do it. He didn't like Obama. He didn't like him. He wouldn't do it.

WELKER: Okay, I've got to give him a chance to respond to that before we move on.

TRUMP: I know for a fact. They tried. We wouldn't do it. And that's okay. You know what? North Korea, we're not in a war. We have a good relationship. People don't understand. Having a good relationship with leaders of other countries is a good thing.

WELKER: President Trump, we have to move on, because we have a lot of questions to get to. Your response.

BIDEN: We had a good relationship with Hitler before he, in fact, invaded Europe, the rest of Europe. Come on. The reason he would not meet with President Obama is because President Obama said, "We're going to talk about denuclearization. We're not going to legitimize you and we're going to continue to push stronger and stronger sanctions on you." That's why he wouldn't meet with us.

WELKER: All right, let's move on.

TRUMP: And it didn't happen.

WELKER: Let's move on and talk about American families.

TRUMP: Excuse me. He left me a mess. Kristen.

WELKER: President Trump. Okay

TRUMP: They left me a mess. North Korea was a mess, and in fact, if you remember the first two or three months. It was a very dangerous period in my first three months before we worked things out a little bit.

WELKER: Okay.

TRUMP: There was a very day. They left us a mess, and Obama would be, I think, the first to say it, was the single biggest problem he thought that our country

WELKER: Okay, let's move on to American families and the economy. One of the issues that's most important to them is healthcare, as you both know. Today, there was a key vote on a new Supreme Court Justice, Amy Coney Barrett, and healthcare is at the center of her confirmation fight. Over 20 million Americans get their health insurance through the Affordable Care Act. It's headed to the Supreme Court and your administration, Mr. President, is advocating for the court to overturn it. If the Supreme Court does overturn that law, there's 20 million Americans could lose their health insurance almost overnight. So what would you do if those people have their health insurance taken away? You have two minutes uninterrupted.

TRUMP: First of all, I've already done something that nobody thought was possible. Through the legislature, I terminated the individual mandate. That is the worst part of Obamacare, as we call it. The individual mandate where you have to pay a fortune for the privilege of not having to pay for bad health insurance, I terminated. It's gone. Now, it's in court, because Obamacare is no good. But then I made a decision, run it as well as you can, to my people, great people, run it as well as you can. I could have gone the other route and made everybody very unhappy. They ran it. Premiums are down. Everything's down. Here's the problem. No matter how well you run it, it's no good. What we'd like to do is terminate it. We have the individual mandate done. I don't know that it's going to work. If we don't win, we will have to run it and we'll have Obamacare, but it'll be better run. But it no longer is Obamacare, because without the individual mandate, it's much different.

TRUMP: Pre-existing conditions will always stay. What I would like to do is a much better healthcare, much better. We'll always protect people with pre-existing. So I'd like to terminate Obamacare, come up with a brand new, beautiful healthcare. The Democrats will do it, because there'll be tremendous pressure on them. And we might even have the House by that time. And I think we're going to win the House. You'll see, but I think we're going to win the House. But come up with a better healthcare, always protecting people with pre-existing conditions. And one thing very important, we have 180 million people out there that have great private healthcare. Far more than we're talking about with Obamacare. Joe Biden is going to terminate all of those policies. These are people that love their healthcare. People that have been successful, middle-income people, been successful. They have 180 million plans, 180 million people, families. Under what he wants to do, which will basically be socialized medicine, he won't even have a choice, they want to terminate 180 million plans. We have done an incredible job at healthcare, and we're going to do even better. Just you watch.

WELKER: Okay. Vice President Biden, yes, this is for you. Your healthcare plan calls for building on Obamacare. So my question is, what is your plan if the law is ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court? You have two minutes uninterrupted.

BIDEN: What I'm going to do is pass Obamacare with a public option, and become Bidencare. The public option is an option that says that if you in fact do not have the wherewithal, if you qualify for Medicaid and you do not have the wherewithal in your state to get Medicaid, you automatically are enrolled, providing competition for insurance companies. That's what's going to happen. Secondly, we're going to make sure we reduce the premiums and reduce drug prices by making sure that there's competition, that doesn't exist now, by allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices with the insurance companies. Thirdly, the idea that I want to eliminate private insurance, the reason why I had such a fight with 20 candidates for the nomination was I support private insurance. That's why. Not one single person with private insurance would lose their insurance under my plan, nor did they under Obamacare. They did not lose their insurance unless they chose they wanted to go to something else.

BIDEN: Lastly, we're going to make sure we're in a situation that we actually protect pre-existing. There's no way he can protect pre-existing conditions. None, zero. You can't do it in the ether. He's been talking about this for a long time. He's never come up with a plan. I guess we're going to get the pre-existing condition plan the same time we got the infrastructure plan that we waited for since '17, '18, '19, and 20. I still have a few more minutes. I know you're getting anxious. The fact is that he's already cost the American people, because of his terrible handling of the COVID virus and economic spillover. 10 million people have lost their private insurance, and he wants to take away 22 million more people who have it under Obamacare and over 110 million people with pre-existing conditions. And all the people from COVID are going to have pre-existing conditions, what are they going to do?

WELKER: I have a follow-up for you Vice President Biden. It relates to something that President Trump said. He's accusing you of wanting socialized medicine. What do you say to people who have concerns that your healthcare plan, which includes a government insurance option, takes.

WELKER: Concerns that your healthcare plan, which includes a government insurance option, takes the country one step closer to a healthcare system run entirely by the government. What's your response to that?

BIDEN: I say it's ridiculous. It's like saying that the fact that there's a public option that people can choose, that makes it a socialist plan. Look, the difference between the president and I... I think healthcare is not a privilege, it's a right. Everyone should have the right to have affordable healthcare, and I am very proud of my plan. It's gotten endorsed by all the major labor unions, as well as a whole range of other people who, in fact, are concerned in the medical field. This is something that's going to save people's lives. And this is going to give some people an opportunity to have healthcare for their children. How many of you at home are worried and rolling around in bed tonight, wondering what in God's name you're going to do if you get sick, because you've lost your health insurance and your company's gone under? We have to provide health insurance for people at an affordable rate, and that's what I do.

WELKER: President Trump.

TRUMP: Excuse me. He was there.

WELKER: ... your response.

TRUMP: ... for 47 years. He didn't do it. He was now there as vice president for eight years. And it's not like it was 25 years ago. It was three and three quarters... It was just a little while ago, right? Less than four years ago. He didn't do anything. He didn't do it. He wants socialized medicine. And it's not that he wants it. His vice president, she is more liberal than Bernie Sanders and wants it even more. Bernie Sanders wants it. The Democrats want it. You're going to have socialized medicine, just like you want it with fracking. "We're not going to have fracking. We're going to stop fracking. We're going to stop fracking." Then he goes to Pennsylvania after he gets a nomination, where he got very lucky to get it. And he goes to Pennsylvania, and he says, "Oh, we're going to have fracking." And you never ask that question. And by the way, so far, I respect very much the way you're handling this, I have to say.

BIDEN: By the way.

TRUMP: But somebody should ask the question.

BIDEN: You can ask it.

TRUMP: He goes for a year, there will be no fracking.

WELKER: We do have a number.

TRUMP: There will be no petroleum.

WELKER: We have a number of topics we're going to get to.

TRUMP: No, no. But that's a big question.

WELKER: We're going to get to a number of topics.

TRUMP: It's the same thing with socialized medicine.

BIDEN: I have to respond to healthcare.

WELKER: Vice President, your response please.

BIDEN: My response is, people deserve to have affordable healthcare, period. Period, period, period. And the Biden care proposal will in fact provide for that affordable healthcare, lower premiums. What we're going to do is going to cost some money. It's going to cost over $750 billion over 10 years to do it. And they're going to have lower premiums. You can buy into the better plans, the cheaper plans, lower your premiums, deal with unexpected billing, and have your drug prices drop significantly. He keeps talking about it. He hasn't done a thing for anybody on healthcare. Not a thing.

TRUMP: Kristen, when he says.

WELKER: Very quickly, then I want to talk about what's happening on Capitol Hill.

TRUMP: When he says public option, he's talking about socialized medicine and healthcare. When he talks about a public option, he's talking about destroying your Medicare, totally destroying.

BIDEN: Wrong.

TRUMP: ... and destroying your Social Security. And this whole country will come down. Bernie Sanders tried it in his state.

BIDEN: Bernie.

TRUMP: He tried it in his state. His governor was a very liberal governor. They wanted to make it work.

WELKER: Okay. Let's hear.

TRUMP: It was impossible to work.

WELKER: Let's let Vice President Biden respond.

TRUMP: It doesn't work.

BIDEN: He's a very confused guy. He thinks he's running against somebody else. He's running against Joe Biden. I beat all those other people because I disagreed with them. Joe Biden, he's running against. And the idea that we're in a situation that is going to destroy Medicare... This is the guy that the actuary of Medicare said, "If in fact..." That's Social Security. "If in fact he continues his plan to withhold the tax on Social Security, Social Security will be bankrupt by 2023 with no way to make up for it." This is the guy who's tried to cut Medicare. The idea that Donald Trump is lecturing me on Social Security and Medicare? Come on.

TRUMP: He tried to get rid of.

WELKER: 10 seconds, Mr. President, and then I have to go to another question.

TRUMP: He tried to hurt Social Security years ago. Years ago. Go back and look at the records. He tried to hurt Social Security years ago. One thing. But this is the guy.

WELKER: All right. Let's move on. I'm going to move on.

TRUMP: ... that when they announced last week.

WELKER: Mr. President, I have to move on to the next question or else we're not going to have time to talk about it.

TRUMP: They say the stock market will boom if I'm elected. If he's elected, the stock market will crash.

WELKER: Okay. Let's move on to the next question.

TRUMP: The biggest analysts are saying that.

BIDEN: May I respond?

WELKER: Very quickly.

BIDEN: Look, the idea that the stock market is booming is his only measure of what's happening. Where I come from in Scranton and Claymont, the people don't live off of the stock market. Just in the last three years, during this crisis, the billionaires in this country made, according to Wall Street, 700 billion more dollars. 700 billion more dollars. Because that's his only measure. What happens to the ordinary people out there? What happens to them?

WELKER: Let's talk about what's happening on Capitol Hill.

TRUMP: 401s. Kristen, 401s are through the roof.

WELKER: We're going to move on.

TRUMP: People's stock are through the roof.

WELKER: All right.

TRUMP: And he doesn't come from Scranton. He lived there for a short period of time before he even knew it.

WELKER: Okay. We're going to move on to the next question.

TRUMP: And he left. And the people of Pennsylvania will show you that.

WELKER: Let me move on to my next question, gentlemen.

TRUMP: They understand.

WELKER: As of tonight, more than 12 million people are out of work. And as of tonight, 8 million more Americans have fallen into poverty, and more families are going hungry every day. Those hit hardest are women and people of color. They see Washington fighting over a relief bill. Mr. President, why haven't you been able to get them the help they need? 30 seconds here.

TRUMP: Because Nancy Pelosi doesn't want to approve it. I do.

WELKER: But you're the president.

TRUMP: I do. But I still have to get, unfortunately... That's one of the reasons I think we're going to take over the House, because of her. Nancy Pelosi doesn't want to approve anything because she'd love to have some victories on a date called November 3rd. Nancy Pelosi does not want to approve it. We are ready, willing, and able to do something. Don't forget, we've already approved three plans. And it's gone through, including the Democrats, in all fairness. This one, she doesn't want. It's near the election. Because she thinks it helps her politically. I think it hurts her politically.

WELKER: All right, Mr. Vice President.

BIDEN: By the way, as you know, the Republican leader in the United States Senate said he can't pass it. He will be able to pass it. He does not have Republican votes. Why isn't he talking to his Republican friends?

WELKER: Let me follow up with you, Vice President Biden because.

TRUMP: If we made a deal, the Republicans will pass it.

WELKER: Let me ask Vice President Biden a question. You are the leader of the Democratic party. Why have you not pushed the Democrats to get a deal for the American people?

BIDEN: I have, and they have pushed it. Look, they passed this act all the way back in the beginning of the summer. It's not new. It's been out there. This HEROES Act has been sitting there. And look at what's happening. When I was in charge of the recovery act with $800 billion, I was able to get $145 billion to local communities that have to balance their budgets and states that have to balance their budgets. And then they have to fire firefighters, teachers, first responders, law enforcement officers, so they could keep their cities and counties running. He will not support that. They have not done a thing for them. And Mitch McConnell said, "Let them go bankrupt. Let them go bankrupt." Come on. What's the matter with these guys?

TRUMP: The bill that was passed in the House was a bailout of badly run, high crime, Democrat, all run by Democrat cities and states. It was a way of getting a lot of money, billions and billions of dollars, to these guys. It was also a way of getting a lot of money from our people's pockets to people that come into our country illegally. We were going to take care of everything for them. And I'd love to do that. I'd love to help them. But what that does, everybody all over the world will start pouring into our country. We can't do it. This was a way of taking care of them. This was a way of spending on things that had nothing to do with COVID, as per your question. But it was really a big bailout for badly run Democrat cities and states.

WELKER: All right. I want to.

BIDEN: By the way, if I get elected, I'm not going to... I'm running as a proud Democrat, but I'm going to be an American president. I don't see red states and blue states. What I see is American United States. And folks, every single state out there finds themself in trouble. They're going to start laying off, whether they're red or blue, cops, firefighters, first responders, teachers, because they have to balance their budget. And the founders were smart. They allowed the federal government to deficit spend to compensate for the United States of America.

WELKER: I want to talk about the minimum wage, gentlemen. Mr. Vice President, we are talking a lot about struggling small businesses and business owners these days. Do you think this is the right time to ask them to raise the minimum wage? You of course support a $15 federal minimum wage.

BIDEN: I do, because I think one of the things we're going to have to do is we're going to have to bail them out too. We should be bailing them out now, those small businesses. You got one in six of them going under. They're not going to be able to make it back. They passed a package that allows us to be able... They call it PPP. Money is supposed to go to help them do everything from organize how they can deal with their businesses being open safely, schools, how they can make classrooms smaller, how they can hire more teachers, how they can put ventilation systems in. They need the help. The businesses, as well as the schools, need the help. These guys will not help them. It's not giving them any of the money.

WELKER: We are going to move on to immigration, but I want to get.

TRUMP: Excuse me. One thing very quickly. He said we have to help our small businesses by raising the minimum wage. That's not helping. I think it should be a state option. Alabama is different than New York. New York is different from Vermont. Every state is different. It should be a state option.

WELKER: You said very recently.

TRUMP: It's very important. We have to help our small businesses.

WELKER: You said.

TRUMP: How are you helping your small businesses when you're forcing wages? What's going to happen, and what's been proven to happen, is when you do that, these small businesses fire many of their employees.

WELKER: You said very recently.

BIDEN: Not true, by the way.

WELKER: ... you would consider raising the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour.

TRUMP: Say it. Say it.

WELKER: You said recently you would consider raising the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour.

TRUMP: What I really like, and I would consider it to an extent.

WELKER: In a second administration?

TRUMP: But what I really like... In a second administration. But not to a level that's going to put all these businesses out of business. It should be a state option. Look, I've lived.

BIDEN: Every.

TRUMP: ... in different places. I know different places. They're all different. Some places, $ 15 is not so bad. In other places, other states, $15 would be ruinings.

WELKER: Okay, President Trump, thank you. Quick response Vice President Biden.

BIDEN: No one should work one job, be below poverty. People are making six, seven, eight bucks an hour. These first responders we all clap for as they come down the street because they've allowed us to make it. What's happening? They deserve a minimum wage of $15. Anything below that puts you below the poverty level. And there is no evidence that when you raise the minimum wage, businesses go out of business. That is simply not true.

WELKER: We're going to talk about immigration.

BIDEN: It's an 

WELKER: We're going to talk about immigration now, gentlemen. And we're going to talk about families within this context. Mr. President, your administration separated children from their parents at the border, at least 4,000 kids. You've since reversed your zero tolerance policy, but the United States can't locate the parents of more than 500 children. So how will these families ever be reunited?

TRUMP: Children are brought here by coyotes and lots of bad people, cartels...

TRUMP: and lots of bad people, cartels, and they're brought here and they used to use them to get into our country. We now have as strong a border as we've ever had. We're over 400 miles of brand new wall. You see the numbers. And we let people in, but they have to come in legally and they come in through

WELKER: But how will you reunite these kids with their families, Mr. President?

TRUMP: But let me just tell you. Let me just tell you. They built cages. They used to say I built the cages, and then they had a picture in a certain newspaper, and it was the picture of these horrible cages and they said, "Look at these cages. President Trump built them." And then it was determined they were built in 2014. That was him. They built cages.

WELKER: Do you have a plan to reunite the kids with their families?

TRUMP: Yes. We're working on it very... We're trying very hard. But a lot of these kids come out without the parents. They come over through cartels and through coyotes and through gangs.

WELKER: Vice President Biden, let me bring you into this conversation. Quick response, and then another question to you.

BIDEN: These 500-plus kids came with parents. They separated them at the border to make it a disincentive to come to begin with. "Be real tough. We're really strong." And guess what? They cannot... Coyotes didn't bring them over. Their parents were with them. They got separated from their parents. And it makes us a laughingstock and violates every notion of who we are as a nation.

WELKER: Let me ask you a followup question.

TRUMP: Kristen, they did it. We changed the policy. They did it. We changed.

WELKER: Your response to that?

BIDEN: We did not separate the 

TRUMP: They built the cages. Who built the cages, Joe?

BIDEN: Let's talk about what we're talking about.

TRUMP: Who built the cages, Joe?

BIDEN: Let's talk about what we're talking about. What happened? Parents were ripped... Their kids were ripped from their arms and separated, and now they cannot find over 500 of the sets of those parents, and those kids are alone. Nowhere to go. Nowhere to go. It's criminal. It's criminal.

WELKER: Let me ask you about - in 10 seconds and then I need to ask .

TRUMP: Kristen, I will say this. They went down. We brought reporters, everything. They are so well taken care of. They're in facilities that were so clean.

WELKER: But some of them haven't been reunited with their families.

TRUMP: They have gotten such good... But just ask one question. Who built the cages? I'd love you to ask him that. Who built the cages, Joe?

WELKER: Let me ask about your immigration policy, Mr. Vice President. The Obama Administration did fail to deliver immigration reform, which had been a key promise during the administration. It also presided over record deportations, as well as, family detentions at the border before changing course. So why should voters trust you with an immigration overhaul now?

BIDEN: Because we made a mistake made. It took too long to get it right. Took too long to get it right. I'll be President of the United States, not Vice President of the United States. And the fact is I've made it very clear. Within a 100 days, I'm going to send to the United States Congress a pathway to citizenship for over 11 million undocumented people. And all of those so-called dreamers, those DACA kids, they're going to be immediately certified again to be able to stay in this country and put on a path to citizenship. The idea that they are being sent home by this guy and they want to do that is they've gone to they've never seen before. I can imagine. You're five years old. Your parents are taking across the Rio Grande River and it's illegal. And you say, "Oh, no, Mom. Leave me here. I'm not going to go with you." They been here. Many of them are model citizens. Over 20,000 of them are first responders out there taking care of people during this crisis. We owe them. We owe them.

WELKER: President Trump, your reaction.

TRUMP: Kristen, he had eight years to do what he said he was going to do. And I've changed. Without having a specific, we got rid of catch and release. We got rid of a lot of horrible things that they put in and that they lived with. But he had eight years he was Vice President. He did nothing except build cages to keep children in.

WELKER: Vice President Biden, your response.

BIDEN: The catch and release, you know what he's talking about there? If in fact you had a family came across and they were arrested, they in fact were given a date to show up for their hearing. They were released. And guess what? They showed up for a hearing. And this is the first President in the history of the United States of America that anybody seeking asylum has to do it in another country. That's never happened before in America. That's never happened before in America. You come to the United States and you make your case that, "I seek asylum based on the following premise, why I deserve it under American law." They're sitting in squalor on the other side of the river.

WELKER: President Trump, your response. 30 seconds. And then we'll move on.

TRUMP: So important. It just shows that he has no understanding of immigration, of the laws. Catch and release is a disaster. A murderer would come in. A rapist would come in. A very bad person would come in. We would take their name. We have to release them into our country. And then you say they come back. Less than 1% of the people come back. We have to send ICE out and Border Patrol out to find them. We would say, "Come back in two years, three years. We're going to give you a court case. You did Perry Mason. We're going to give you a court case." When you say they come back, they don't come back, Joe. They never come back. Only the really... I hate to say this, but those with the lowest IQ, they might come back, but there are very, very few.

WELKER: Okay, President Trump. Let's give Vice President Biden a chance to respond, and then we're going to move on to the next section.

TRUMP: You don't know the law, Joe.

WELKER: Vice President Biden, your response.

BIDEN: Know the law, what he's telling you is simply not true. Check it out.

TRUMP: Well, check it out. They don't come back.

BIDEN: Check it out.

WELKER: All right. Let's move on to the next section.

TRUMP: But we don't have to worry about it, because they terminated it. So we don't have to worry about it anymore, Joe.

WELKER: Let's move on to the next section.

BIDEN: That's right. And you 525 kids not knowing where in God's name they're going to be and lost their parents.

TRUMP: Go ahead.

WELKER: All right. Let's talk about our next section, which is race in America. And I want to talk about the way Black and Brown Americans experience race in this country. Part of that experience is something called the talk. It happens regardless of class and income, parents who feel they have no choice, but to prepare their children for the chance that they could be targeted, including by the police, for no reason other than the color of their skin. Mr. Vice President, in the next two minutes, I want you to speak directly to these families. Do you understand why these parents fear for their children?

BIDEN: I do. I do. My daughter is a social worker and she's written a lot about this. She has her graduate degree from the University of Pennsylvania in social work. And one of the reasons why I ended up working on the East Side of Wilmington, Delaware, which is 90% African-American, was to learn more about what was going on. I never had to tell my daughter if she's pulled over, make sure she puts... For a traffic stop. "Put both hands on top of the wheel and don't reach for the glove box because someone may shoot you." But a Black parent, no matter how wealthy or how poor they are, has to teach their child, "When you're walking down the street, don't have a hoodie on when you go across the street.

BIDEN: Making sure that you, in fact, if you get pulled over just, yes, sir, no, sir. Hands on top of the wheel. Because you are in fact, the victim, whether you're a person making 300,000 ... child of a $300,000 a year person or someone who's on food stamps. The fact of the matter is, there is institutional racism in America. And we have always said, we've never lived up to it, that we hold these truths to be self-evident, all men and women are created equal. Well, guess what, we have never, ever lived up to it. But we've always constantly been moving the needle further and further to inclusion, not exclusion. This is the first president to come along and says, that's the end of that. We're not going to do that anymore. We have to provide for economic opportunity, better education, better healthcare, better access to schooling, better access to opportunity to borrow money to start businesses, all the things we can do. And I've laid out a clear plan as to how to do those things just to give people a shot. It's about accumulating the ability to have wealth as well as it is to be free from violence.

WELKER: President Trump, same question to you, and let me remind you of the question. I would like you to speak directly to these families, do you understand why these parents fear for their children?

TRUMP: Yes, I do. And again, he's been in government 47 years, he never did a thing, except in 1994, when he did such harm to the black community, and they were called ... and he called them superpredators. And he said that, he said it, superpredators. And they never lived that down. 1994, your crime bill, the superpredators. Nobody has done more for the black community than Donald Trump. And if you look, with the exception of Abraham Lincoln, possible exception, but the exception of Abraham Lincoln, nobody has done what I've done. Criminal justice reform, Obama and Joe didn't do it. I don't even think they tried because they had no chance at doing it. They might've wanted to do it. But if you had to see the arms I had to twist to get that done, it was not a pretty picture. And everybody knows it, including some very liberal people that cried in my office. They cried in the Oval Office.

TRUMP: Two weeks later, they're out saying, "Gee, we have to defeat him." Criminal justice reform, prison reform, Opportunity Zones with Tim Scott, a great Senator from South Carolina. He came in with this incredible idea for Opportunity Zones. It's one of the most successful programs. People don't talk about it. Tremendous investment is being made, biggest beneficiary, the black and Hispanic communities. And then Historically Black Colleges and Universities, after three years of coming to the office, I love some of those guys, they were great. They came into the office and I said, "What are you doing?" After three years, I said, "Why do you keep coming back?" Because we have no funding." I said, "You don't have to come back every year." "We have to come back."

TRUMP: Because President Obama would never give them long-term funding and I did. 10 year long-term funding and I gave them more money than they asked for because I said, "I think you need more." And I said, "The only bad part about this is I may never see you again." Because I got very friendly with them and they like me and I like them. But I saved Historically Black Colleges and Universities.

WELKER: Okay, and we're going to talk about both of your records, but your response to that Vice President.

BIDEN: My response to that is I never ever said what he accused me of saying. The fact of the matter is in 2000 though, after the crime bill had been in the law for awhile, this is a guy who said, "The problem with the crime bill, there's not enough people in jail. There's not enough people in jail." And go on my website, get the quote, the date when he said it, "not enough people." He talked about marauding gangs, young gangs, and the people who are going to maraud our cities. This is a guy who in the Central Park Five, five innocent black kids, he continued to push for making sure that they got the death penalty. None of them were guilty of the crimes they were suggested. Look and granted, he did in fact, let 20 people ... he commuted 20 people's sentences.

BIDEN: We commuted over 1,000 people's sentences, over 1,000. The very law he's talking about is a law that in fact, initiated by Barack Obama. And secondly, we're in a situation here where the federal prison system was reduced by 38,000 people under our administration. And one of those things we should be doing, there should be no, no minimum mandatories in the law. That's why I'm offering $20 billion to states to change their state laws to eliminate minimum mandatories and set up drug courts. No one should be going to jail because they have a drug problem. They should be going to rehabilitation, not to jail. We should fundamentally change the system and that's what I'm going to do.

TRUMP: But why didn't he do it four years ago? Why didn't you do that four years ago? Even less than that. Why didn't you when you vice president? You keep talking about all these things you're going to do, and you're going to do this, but you were there just a short time ago and you guys did nothing.

BIDEN: We did.

TRUMP: You know Joe, I ran because of you. I ran because of Barack Obama, because you did a poor job. If I thought you did a good job, I would've never run. I would've never run. I ran because of you. I'm looking at you now, you're a politician, I ran because of you.

WELKER: All right, Vice President Biden, your response to that. And then I do have some questions for both of you.

BIDEN: Well, I'll tell you what I hope he does look at me because what's happening here is, you know who I am. You know who he is, you know his character, you know my character, you know our reputations for honor and telling the truth. I am anxious to have this race. I'm anxious to see this take place. I am ... The character of the country is on the ballot. Our character's on the ballot, look at us closely.

WELKER: Let me ask some follow up.

TRUMP: Excuse me.

WELKER: Please respond and then we're going to have follow up questions.

TRUMP: If this stuff is true about Russia, Ukraine, China, other countries, Iraq. If this is true, then he's a corrupt politician. So don't give me the stuff about how you're this innocent baby. Joe, that calling you a corrupt politician.

BIDEN: Nobody's calling me.

TRUMP: They're calling it the laptop from hell.

WELKER: President Trump, I want to stay on the issue of race. We're talking about the issue.

TRUMP: Excuse me, the laptop from hell.

BIDEN: Nobody.

WELKER: President Trump, we're talking about race right now. And I do want to stay on the issue of race. President Trump you.

BIDEN: I have to respond to that. Because look.

WELKER: Please, very quickly.

BIDEN: There are 50 former national intelligence folks who said that what he's accusing me of is a Russian plant. They have said that this has all the ... five former heads of the CIA, both parties, say what he's saying is a bunch of garbage. Nobody believes it except him and his good friend, Rudy Giuliani.

TRUMP: You mean the laptop is now another Russia, Russia, Russia hoax? You got to be kidding me.

BIDEN: That's exactly what was told.

TRUMP: This is where he's going. The laptop is Russia, Russia, Russia?

WELKER: Gentlemen, I want to stay on the issue of race.

TRUMP: You have to be kidding, here we go again with the Russia. Boy, oh, boy.

WELKER: We're going to continue on the issue of race.

TRUMP: Can't believe that one.

WELKER: Mr. President you've described the Black Lives Matter movement as a symbol of hate. You've shared a video of a man chanting white power to millions of your supporters. You've said that black professional athletes exercising their First Amendment rights should be fired. What do you say to Americans who say that kind of language from a president is contributing to a climate of hate and racial strife?

TRUMP: Well, you have to understand the first time I ever heard of Black Lives Matter, they were chanting, "Pigs in a blanket," talking about police, pigs, pigs, talking about our police. "Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon." I said, "That's a horrible thing." And they were marching down the street. And that was my first glimpse of Black Lives Matter, I thought it was a terrible thing. As far as my relationships with all people, I think I have great relationships with all people. I am the least racist person in this room.

WELKER: What do you say to Americans who are concerned by that rhetoric?

TRUMP: I don't know. I mean, I don't know what to say. I got criminal justice reform done and prison reform and Opportunity Zones.

TRUMP: ... got criminal justice reform done, and prison reform, and Opportunity Zones, I took care of Black colleges and universities, I don't know what to say, they can say anything, I mean, they can say anything. It's a very... Makes me sad, because I am the least racist person, I can't even see the audience because it's so dark, but I don't care who's in the audience, I'm the least racist person in this room.

WELKER: Okay. Vice President Biden, let me ask you very quickly and then I have a follow-up question for you.

BIDEN: Abraham Lincoln here is one of the most racist presidents we've had in modern history, he pours fuel on every single racist fire, every single one. Started off his campaign coming down the escalator saying he's getting rid of those Mexican rapists, he's ban Muslims because they're Muslims, he has moved around and made everything worse across the board. He says to... About the Proud Boys, last time we were on stage here he said, "I tell them to stand down and stand ready." Come on, this guy has a dog whistle about as big as a foghorn.

WELKER: President Trump, I'm going to give you 10 seconds to respond and then I have a follow-up question.

TRUMP: No, he made a reference to Abraham Lincoln, where did that come in? I mean.

BIDEN: You said you're Abraham Lincoln.

TRUMP: ... where did that..... No.

BIDEN: You said.

TRUMP: I said, "Not since Abraham Lincoln has anybody done what I've done for the Black community."

BIDEN: And I'm saying.

TRUMP: I didn't say, "I'm Abraham Lincoln," I said, "Not since Abraham Lincoln has anybody done what I've done for the Black community." Now, you have done nothing other than the Crime Bill, which put.

BIDEN: Oh, God.

TRUMP: Tens of thousands of Black men, mostly, in jail.

BIDEN: Not true.

WELKER: All right, let me ask Vice President Biden a question.

TRUMP: And you know what? They remember it because if you look at what's happening with the voting right now, they remember that you treated them very, very badly, just take a look at what's happening out there.

WELKER: Let me ask Vice President Biden about... Vice President Biden, let me give you a chance to respond within this context, crime bills that you supported in the '80s and '90s contributed to the incarceration of tens of thousands of young Black men who had small amounts of drugs in their possession, they are sons, they are brothers, they are fathers, they are uncles, whose families are still to this day, some of them suffering the consequences. So, speak to those families, why should they vote for you?

BIDEN: One of the things is that in the '80s we passed 100 percent, all 100 senators voted for a bill on drugs and how to deal with drugs, it was a mistake. I've been trying to change since then particularly the portion on cocaine. That's why I've been arguing that in fact we should not send anyone to jail for a pure drug offense, they should be going into treatment across the board, that's what we should be spending money. And that's why I set up drug courts which were never funded by our Republican friends. They should not be going to jail for a drug or an alcohol problem, they should be going into treatment. That's what we've been trying to do, that's what I'm going to get done because I think the American people have now seen that in fact it was a mistake to pass those laws relating to drugs, but they were not in the Crime Bill.

TRUMP: But, why didn't he get it done? See, it's all talk, no action with these politicians, why didn't he get it? "That's what I'm going to do when I become president." You were vice president along with Obama as your president, your leader, for eight years, why didn't you get it done? You had eight years to get it done, now you're saying you're going to get it done because you're all talking and no action, Joe.

WELKER: Your response.

BIDEN: We got a lot of it done. We released 38,000 .

TRUMP: You didn't get anything done.

BIDEN: We got 38,000 prisoners .

TRUMP: You got nothing done.

BIDEN: 38,000 prisoners were released from federal prison, we have... There were over a thousand people who were given clemency. . In fact, were the ones that put in the legislation saying we could look at pattern and practice of police departments and what they were doing, how they're conducting themselves. I could go on, but we began the process, we lost an election, that's why I'm running to win back that election and change his terrible policy.

TRUMP: I just have.

WELKER: Your response and then we're going to move on to climate change.

TRUMP: ... one question, why didn't you do it in the eight years, a short time ago? Why didn't you do it? You just said, "I'm going to do that, I'm going to do this." You put tens of thousands of mostly Black young men in prison, now you're saying you're going to get... You're going to undo that, why didn't you get it done? You had eight years with Obama. You know why, Joe? Because you're all talk and no action.

WELKER: All right, Vice President Biden, and then we're going to move on to the next section.

BIDEN: We had a Republican Congress, that's the answer.

WELKER: Okay.

TRUMP: Well, you got to talk them into it, Joe, sometimes you got to talk them into it.

WELKER: We're going to move on to our next section which is climate change.

TRUMP: ... like I did with criminal justice reform, I had to talk Democrats into it.

BIDEN: You did what we already had done.

WELKER: Gentlemen, we're running out of time so we got to get onto climate change, please. You both have very different visions on climate change. President Trump, you say that environmental regulations have hurt jobs in the energy sector, Vice President Biden, you have said you see addressing climate change as an opportunity to create new jobs. For each of you, how would you both combat climate change and support job growth at the same time? Starting with you, President Trump, you have two minutes uninterrupted.

TRUMP: So, we have the trillion trees program, we have so many different programs, I do love the environment, but what I want is that cleanest crystal clear water, the cleanest air. We have the best lowest number in carbon emissions, which is a big standard that I noticed Obama goes with all the time, not Joe, I haven't heard Joe use the term because I'm not sure he knows what it represents or means, but I have heard Obama use it. And we have the best carbon emission numbers that we've had in 35 years under this administration, we are working so well with industry, but here's what we can't do. Look at China, how filthy it is, look at Russia, look at India, it's filthy, the air is filthy. The , I took us out because we were going to have to spend trillions of dollars and we were treated very unfairly.

TRUMP: When they put us in there, they did us a great disservice, they were going to take away our businesses. I will not sacrifice tens of millions of jobs, thousands and thousands of companies because of the Paris Accord, it was so unfair. China doesn't kick in until 2030, Russia goes back to a low standard, and we kicked in right away, it would have been... It would have destroyed our businesses. So, you ready? We have done an incredible job environmentally, we have the cleanest air, the cleanest water, and the best carbon emission standards that we've seen in many, many years.

WELKER: Vice President Biden.

TRUMP: And we haven't destroyed our industries.

WELKER: Vice President Biden, two minutes to you uninterrupted.

BIDEN: Climate change, global warming is an existential threat to humanity. We have a moral obligation to deal with it. And we're told by all the leading scientists in the world we don't have much time, we're going to pass the point of no return within the next 8 to 10 years. Four more years of this man eliminating all the regulations that were put in by us to clean up the climate, to clean up... To limit the emissions, will put us in a position where we're going to be in real trouble. Here's where we have a great opportunity. I was able to get both all the environmental organizations as well as the labor, the people worried about jobs, to support my climate plan.

BIDEN: Because what it does, it will create millions of new good paying jobs, we're going to invest in, for example, 500,000... Excuse me, 50,000 charging stations on our highways so that we can own the electric car market of the future. In the meantime, China is doing that. We're going to be in a position where we're going to see to it that we're going to take 4 million existing buildings and 2 million existing homes and retrofit them so they don't leak as much energy, saving hundreds of millions of barrels of...

BIDEN: So they don't leak as much energy saving hundreds of millions of barrels of oil in the process and creating significant number of jobs. By the way, the whole idea of what this is all going to do, it's going to create millions of jobs and it's going to clean the environment. Our health and our jobs are at stake. That's what's happening and what right now, by the way, Wall Street firms indicated that my plan, my plan will in fact, create 18.6 million jobs, 7 million more than his. This is from Wall Street and I'll create $1 trillion more in economic growth than his proposal does. Not on climate, just on economy.

WELKER: President Trump, your response.

TRUMP: They came out and said very strongly $6,500 will be taken away from families under his plan, that his plan is an economic disaster. If you look at what he wants to do, if you look at his plan, his .

BIDEN: .

TRUMP: - his environmental plan, do you know developed it? AOC plus three, they know nothing about the climate. I mean, she's got a good line of stuff, but she knows nothing about the climate and they're all hopping through hoops for AOC plus three. Look, their real plan cost a hundred trillion dollars. If we had the best year in the history of our country for a hundred years, we would not even come close to a number like that. When he says buildings, they want to take buildings down because they want to make bigger windows into smaller windows. As far as they're concerned, if you had no window, it would be a lovely thing.

TRUMP: This is the craziest plan that anybody has ever seen and this wasn't done by smart people. This wasn't done by anybody. Frankly, I don't even know how it can be good politically. They want to spend a hundred trillion dollars. That's their real number. He's trying to say it was six. It's a hundred trillion dollars. They want to knock down buildings and build new buildings with little, tiny, small windows and many other things.

WELKER: Okay.

TRUMP: And many other things. And many other things.

WELKER: Okay, let me have the vice-president respond.

TRUMP: It is crazy.

WELKER: We're running out of time and we have a lot more questions to get back to.

TRUMP: You'll destroy our country.

WELKER: So let's hear from the vice president. I have a number of more question..

BIDEN: I don't know where he comes from. I don't know where he comes up with these numbers.

WELKER: Queens.

BIDEN: A hundred trillion dollars, give me a break. This plan has been endorsed by every major, every major environmental group and every labor group, labor, because they know the future lies. The future lies in us being able to breathe and they know they're good jobs and getting us there.

BIDEN: By the way, the fastest growing industry in America is the electric, excuse me, solar energy and wind. He thinks wind causes cancer, windmills. It's the fastest growing jobs and they pay good prevailing wages, 45, 50 bucks an hour. We can grow and we can be cleaner if we go the route I'm proposing.

WELKER: President Trump.

TRUMP: Excuse me.

WELKER: Please respond and then I have his follow up.

TRUMP: We are energy independent for first time. We don't need all of these countries that we had to fight war over because we needed their energy. We are energy independent. I know more about wind than you do. It's extremely expensive. Kills all the birds. It's very intermittent. It's got a lot of problems and they happen to make the windmills in both Germany and China and the fumes coming up, if you're a believer in carbon emission, the fumes coming up to make these massive windmills is more than anything that we're talking about with natural gas, which is very clear.

TRUMP: One other thing, solar.

BIDEN: Find me a scientist who says that.

TRUMP: I love solar, but solar doesn't quite have it yet. It's not powerful yet to really run our big, beautiful factories that we need to compete with the world.

BIDEN: False.

TRUMP: It's all a pipe dream, but you know what we'll do? We're going to have the greatest economy in the world, but if you want to kill the economy, get rid of your oil industry you want. And what about fracking?

WELKER: Let me.

TRUMP: Now we have to ask him about fracking.

WELKER: Let me allow the Vice President Biden to respond.

BIDEN: I never said I oppose fracking.

TRUMP: You said it on tape.

BIDEN: Show the tape, put it on your website.

TRUMP: I'll put it on.

BIDEN: Put it on the website. The fact of the matter is he's flat lying.

WELKER: Would you rule out about banning fracking?

BIDEN: I do rule out banning fracking because the answer we need, we need other industries to transition, to get to ultimately a complete zero emissions by 2025. What I will do with fracking over time is make sure that we can capture the emissions from the fracking, capture the emissions from gas. We can do that and we can do that by investing money in doing it, but it's a transition to that.

WELKER: I have one more question in this pile then.

TRUMP: Excuse me. He was against fracking. He said it. I will show that to you tomorrow.

BIDEN: Good.

TRUMP: I am against fracking. Until he got the nomination, he went to Pennsylvania. Then he said, "But you know what Pennsylvania?" He'll be against it very soon because his party is totally against it.

BIDEN: Fracking on federal land. I said, no fracking and/or oil on federal land.

WELKER: Let me ask this final question in this section and then I want to move on to our final section. President Trump, people of color are much more likely to live near oil refineries and chemical plants. In Texas, there are families who worry the plants near them are making them sick. Your administration has rolled back regulations on these kinds of facilities. Why should these families give you another four years in office?

TRUMP: The families that we're talking about are employed heavily and they are making a lot of money, more money than they've ever made. If you look at the kind of numbers that we've produced for Hispanic, for Black, for Asian, it's nine times greater the percentage gain than it was under in three years than it was under eight years of the two of them to put it nicely, nine times more.

TRUMP: Now somebody lives, I have not heard the numbers or the statistics that you're saying, but they're making a tremendous amount of money. Economically, we saved it and I saved it again a number of months ago, when oil was crashing because of the pandemic. We saved it.

TRUMP: Say what you want to bet relationship. We got Saudi Arabia, Mexico and Russia to cut back, way back. We saved our oil industry and now it's very vibrant again and everybody has very inexpensive gasoline. Remember that.

WELKER: Vice President Biden, your response and then we're going to have a final question for both of you.

BIDEN: My response is that those people live on what they call fence lines. He doesn't understand this. They live near chemical plants that in fact, pollute, chemical plants and oil plants and refineries that pollute.

BIDEN: I used to live near that when I was growing up in Claymont, Delaware and there are more oil refineries in Marcus Hook and the Delaware River than there is any place, including in Houston at the time. When my mom get in the car and when there are first frost to drive me to school, turning the windshield wiper, there'd been oil slick in the window. That's why so many people in my state were dying and getting cancer. The fact is those frontline communities, it's not a matter of what you're paying them. It matters how you keep them safe. What do you do? You impose restrictions on the pollutions that if the pollutants coming out of those fence line communities.

WELKER: Okay. I have one final question called.

TRUMP: Would he close down the oil industry?

WELKER: It falls .

TRUMP: Would you close down the oil industry?

BIDEN: By the way, I have a transition from the old industry, yes.

TRUMP: Oh, that's a big statement.

BIDEN: I will transition. It is a big statement.

TRUMP: That's a big statement.

BIDEN: Because I would stop.

WELKER: Why would you do that?

BIDEN: Because the oil industry pollutes, significantly.

TRUMP: Oh, I see. Okay.

BIDEN: Here's the deal.

TRUMP: That's a big statement.

BIDEN: Well if you let me finish the statement, because it has to be replaced by renewable energy over time, over time, and I'd stopped giving to the oil industry, I'd stop giving them federal subsidies. You won't get federal subsidies to the gas, oh, excuse me to solar and wind.

TRUMP: Yeah.

BIDEN: Why are we giving it to oil industry?

TRUMP: We actually give it to solar and wind. That's maybe the biggest statement. In terms of business, that's the biggest statement.

WELKER: Okay.

TRUMP: Because basically what he's saying is.

WELKER: We have one final question, Mr. President.

TRUMP: ... he is going to destroy the oil industry. Will you remember that Texas? Will you remember that Pennsylvania, Oklahoma?

WELKER: Okay, Vice President Biden, let me give you 10 seconds.

WELKER: Okay.

TRUMP: Remember that Pennsylvania, Oklahoma, is.

WELKER: Vice President Biden, let me give you 10 seconds to respond.

TRUMP: Ohio.

WELKER: ... and then I have to get to the final question. Vice President Biden.

BIDEN: He takes everything out of context, but the point is, look, we have to move toward net zero emissions. The first place to do that by the year 2035 is in energy production, by 2050 totally.

WELKER: All right. One final question to both of you.

TRUMP: Is he going to get China to do it?

WELKER: No, we're finished with this.

TRUMP: Is he going to get China to do it?

WELKER: We have to move onto our final question.

BIDEN: No, I'm going to rejoin Paris Accord and make China abide by what they agreed to.

TRUMP: .

WELKER: All right. This is about leadership, gentlemen. And this first question does go to you, President Trump. Imagine this is your inauguration day. What will you say in your address, to Americans who did not vote for you? You'll each have one minute, starting with you, Mr. Trump.

TRUMP: We have to make our country totally successful, as it was prior to the plague coming in from China. Now we're rebuilding it and we're doing record numbers, 11.4 million jobs in a short period of time, et cetera. But, I will tell you, go back.

TRUMP: Before the plague came in, just before, I was getting calls from people that were not normally people that would call me. They wanted to get together. We had the best Black unemployment numbers in the history of our country. Hispanic, women, Asian, people with diplomas, with no diplomas, MIT graduates; number one in the class, everybody had the best numbers. And you know what? The other side wanted to get together. They wanted to unify.

TRUMP: Success is going to bring us together. We are on the road to success. But I'm cutting taxes, and he wants to raise everybody's taxes and he wants to put new regulations on everything. He will kill it. If he gets in, you will have a Depression, the likes of which you've never seen. Your 401s will go to hell, and it'll be a very, very sad day for this country.

WELKER: All right. Vice President Biden, same question to you: what will you say during your inaugural address to Americans who did not vote for you?

BIDEN: I will say, I'm an American President. I represent all of you, whether you voted for me or against me, and I'm going to make sure that you're represented. I'm going to give you hope. We're going to move; we're going to choose science over fiction. We're going to choose hope over fear. We're going to choose to move forward because we have enormous opportunities, enormous opportunities to make things better.

BIDEN: We can grow this economy, we can deal with the systemic racism. At the same time, we can make sure that our economy is being run and moved and motivated by clean energy, creating millions of new jobs. That's the fact, that's what we're going to do. And I'm going to say, as I said at the beginning, what is on the ballot here is the character of this country. Decency, honor, respect. Treating people with dignity, making sure that everyone has an even chance. And I'm going to make sure you get that. You haven't been getting it the last four years.

WELKER: All right, I want to thank you both for a very robust hour and a half, a fantastic debate. Really appreciate it. President Trump, Former Vice President Joe Biden. Thank you to Belmont University for hosting us tonight, and most importantly, thank you to those watching tonight. Election day is November 3rd. Don't forget to vote. Thank you everyone and have a great night.

BIDEN: Thank you.