GUTHRIE: It's nothing but noise. What? Okay. All right, ladies and gentlemen, not withstanding a little, few technical difficulties, we're thrilled to have you tonight. And we are very honored by the presence of our president, Donald Trump, who is going to walk in right now. We are about 30 seconds from air, so it'll be just in time. Mr. President.

SPEAKER: This is an NBC news special presentation of Today with Savannah Guthrie.

GUTHRIE: Tonight, Donald Trump in the arena. His first prime time network appearance since falling ill with Coronavirus.

TRUMP: I'm feeling great, I don't know about you. How is everyone feeling?

GUTHRIE: With tonight's debate canceled, the President faces our questions live and hears from voters about their concerns in the battleground state of Florida.

TRUMP: It's great to be back in my home state, Florida, to make my official return to the campaign trail.

GUTHRIE: With just 19 days to go, the President makes his case.

TRUMP: My goal is to fight for you and fight for your family.

SPEAKER: From NBC News, Decision 2020, President Trump Town Hall. Live from the Perez Art Museum in Miami, here's Savannah Guthrie.

GUTHRIE: Hi everybody, and good evening. It's good to have you with us, and welcome to Miami and our town hall with President Donald Trump. And we want to say right off the top, this is not how things were supposed to go tonight. This was supposed to be a town hall debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. But after the President contracted COVID, the debate commission announced it would have to be a virtual debate because of health concerns. The President then said he would not participate in a virtual debate. At that point, Joe Biden scheduled a town hall tonight in Pennsylvania on another network, and now the President is doing the same, his own town hall with the same venue format and time as NBC's town hall with Joe Biden last week. So the two candidates go head to head tonight, though, not face to face, each in a key battleground state.

GUTHRIE: And tonight, the President will be taking questions from voters here in Miami, who we should mention are socially distanced and they're wearing masks. And I should say, this audience looks a bit like America, it's divided. Some here voted for the president in 2016 and plan to again, some support Joe Biden, and some say they are truly undecided. We're going to get a mix of questions on a range of topics, and we're going to get to those questions in a moment. But first with all of that ado, welcome, Mr. President, and thank you for being here.

TRUMP: That was very well stated, I have to say. Good job.

GUTHRIE: Thank you. We're glad you're here, we're glad you're well. We send our best to the First Lady and to Barron.

TRUMP: Thank you, thank you.

GUTHRIE: Do you have any remaining symptoms from COVID?

TRUMP: Nothing whatsoever, I'm great, I feel good. I was in North Carolina today and did a big rally with tremendous turnout, and I just feel really good. Florida, Pennsylvania, were - They said, "Let's go to the hospital." I said, "That's okay. I'm going to respond to what you say." And we went over to Walter Reed, where you have tremendous professionals. They gave me Regeneron and Remdeceiver both. And all I know is I felt good the following day, I felt really good.

GUTHRIE: Did the doctors ever tell you that they saw pneumonia on your lung scans?

TRUMP: No, but they said the lungs are a little bit different, a little bit perhaps infected, and.

GUTHRIE: Infected with?

TRUMP: I don't know. I mean, I didn't do too much asking. I really felt good. I didn't have much of a problem with the lungs. I did have a little bit of a temperature. Obviously, I felt there was something missing, and then I tested, I tested positive.

GUTHRIE: Well, let's talk about testing because there's a little bit of a, I guess, confusion about this. And I think we can clear it up.

TRUMP: Yeah, and there shouldn't be.

GUTHRIE: Your first positive test was Thursday, October 1st, okay? When was your last negative test? When did you last remember having a negative test?

TRUMP: Well, I test quite a bit, and I can tell you that before the debate, which I thought it was a very good debate, and I felt fantastically, I had no problems before.

GUTHRIE: Did you test the day of the debate?

TRUMP: I don't know, I don't even remember. I test all the time. But I can tell you this, after the debate, I guess a day or so, I think it was Thursday evening, maybe even late Thursday evening, I tested positive. That's when I first found out about it.

GUTHRIE: Well back to the debate, because the debate commission's rules, it was the honor system.

TRUMP: Yeah.

GUTHRIE: Would be that you would come with a negative test. You say you don't know if you've got a test on the day of the debate?

TRUMP: I had no problem. Again, the doctors do it. I don't ask them. I test all the time. And they.

GUTHRIE: Did you take a test, though, on the day of the debate?

TRUMP: If you ask as the doctor, they'll give you a perfect answer. But they take a test and I leave and I go about my business.

GUTHRIE: So you did you take a test on the day of the debate, I guess is the bottom line?

TRUMP: I probably did, and I took a test the day before and the day before, and I was always in great shape, and I was in great shape for the debate. And it was only after the debate, a period of time after the debate that I said, "That's interesting." And they took a test and it tested positive.

GUTHRIE: Just to button it up, do you take a test every single day?

TRUMP: No. No, but I take a lot of tests.

GUTHRIE: Okay. And you don't know if you took a test the day of the debate?

TRUMP: Possibly I did, possibly I didn't. But the doctor has very accurate information and it's not only that doctor, it's many doctors. The one thing, if you're President, you have a lot of doctors you're surrounded by. But I was in great shape for the debate. And sometime after the debate, I tested positive, then that's when they decided to, let's go.

GUTHRIE: Okay, good. I hopefully provided some clarity for folks. Let's talk about the event that was held at the White House on the Saturday before you tested positive. Subsequent to that, 13 people connected to that event tested positive. There was an outdoor reception, you've seen the pictures. There was an indoor reception. People were not wearing masks. My question to you is, at this point in the pandemic, knowing what we know, shouldn't you have known better? Shouldn't the White House know better than to hold an event like that?

TRUMP: Well, they do a lot of testing in the White House, they test everybody including me, but they test everybody. And something happened. But as far as the mask is concerned, I'm good with masks. I'm okay with masks. I tell people, wear a mask. But just the other day, they came out with a statement that 85% of the people that wear masks catch it. So this is a very.

GUTHRIE: It didn't say that. I know that study.

TRUMP: That's what I heard, and that's what I saw. And regardless, but everybody's tested and they're tested often. And I also knew that, hey, I'm President. I have to see people. I can't be in a basement. I can't be in a room. I can't be... I have to be out.

GUTHRIE: You can see people with a mask, though, right?

TRUMP: I can, but people with masks are catching it all the time. I mean, if you look at the Governor of Virginia, he was known for a mask. If you look at Thom Tillis, a great guy, he always had a mask, and they caught it.

GUTHRIE: Well, there are pictures of Thom Tillis, actually with one of Judge Barrett's kids not wearing a mask. But you know Chris Christie, he was part of your debate prep.

TRUMP: Yeah.

GUTHRIE: He was, I believe at that event. He came out tonight, he was sick, very sick. He was in the hospital for about a week.

TRUMP: Yes, I know this.

GUTHRIE: He came out tonight and said, "I was wrong not to wear a mask."

TRUMP: Well, I mean, he has to say that. I think it's great, he's a friend of mine. He's a good guy. And wrong or not wrong, you have to understand, as President, I can't be locked in a room someplace for the next year and just stay and do nothing. And every time I go into a crowd, I was with the parents of our fallen heroes. These people are the most incredible people. And they came up to me and they would hug me, and they would touch me, and I'm not to not let them do it, to be honest with you.

GUTHRIE: Now, there was an event with the gold star families the day after the Supreme Court event.

TRUMP: There was, exactly right. We had a gold star event with the most incredible people you've ever seen. And I could have chosen not to talk to them, or to keep everybody away. And you know what? I don't think that's probably where it was caught, but maybe it was.

GUTHRIE: I going to say, you bring it up, you brought it up yourself. I mean, are you trying to suggest that? Do you believe a grieving military family gave you a COVID?

TRUMP: No, I don't know where it came from, and you don't know where it came from, and the doctors don't know where it came from. But as the President, I have to be out there. I also know.

GUTHRIE: Well, there's no one that says you can't be out there, but it's just about wearing masks and having... For example, your rallies.

TRUMP: I know this.

GUTHRIE: Your rallies don't require masks.

TRUMP: I mean, let's see, Kamala. She's got people now, people have it, and I'm not blaming her. I'm not saying, "Oh, she did a terrible thing." As President, I have to be out there. I can't be in a basement. I can't be locked in a very beautiful room someplace in the White House. And I want to see the gold star families, and I want to see everybody. And I also say to people all the time, it's risky doing it. It is risky doing it.

GUTHRIE: But as President, you're right. You want to be a leader, but you also are a leader and a setter of an example. And if you're not wearing a mask when your administration is saying, "Best practice right now is wear a mask," no, it's not foolproof. But that will.

TRUMP: But many people are catching it. Many people are getting this disease that was sent to us by China, and it shouldn't have been allowed to happen. But many people are getting this. And I mean, nobody's being blamed. Everybody is working hard to get this thing out of our country, get it out of the world. Look at what's going on in Europe, massive spikes. They've done a very good job, but now you take a look today at the UK, you take a look at Spain and France and Italy. There's tremendous spikes.

GUTHRIE: But our death rate is worse than, well, not Spain, but those other countries.

TRUMP: Well, I have thing right here that will tell you exactly the opposite.

GUTHRIE: Me too.

TRUMP: The UK is up 2500%, because I knew you'd be doing this. I know you very well. The UK is up 2500%. The EU is up 722%. And the United States is down 21%.

GUTHRIE: But we have per... Our deaths per capita is among the highest of all.

TRUMP: Excess mortality.

GUTHRIE: I'm sorry?

TRUMP: Excess mortality, we're a winner on the excess mortality. And what we've done has been amazing. And we have done an amazing job. And it's rounding the corner and we have the vaccines coming, and we have the therapies coming. And I'll tell you what, one thing. When I got it, I had a choice. Do nothing, or use some of the things that we're looking at, like in this case, Regeneron. and Eli Lilly makes something that's supposed to be incredible. And I think that maybe I wouldn't be doing this discussion with you right now. We have therapies now and cures, maybe you can use the word cure, but we have therapies that are absolutely incredible, Savannah.

GUTHRIE: I want to pick up on something you just said. You said we're rounding the corner.

TRUMP: I believe we're rounding the corner, yes.

GUTHRIE: 10% of the country approximately has had COVID. That means 80%-90%, 90%, let's do the math, is still vulnerable.

TRUMP: Right, right. That's right.

GUTHRIE: There's been some talk, including from the White House lately that perhaps it approves of what's called herd immunity. That's where you basically just let young people and everybody gets sick. You try to protect the old people and those who are sick. And hopefully, it gets up to a certain level, and now we're all immune.

TRUMP: Yeah.

GUTHRIE: So let's just be clear about it. It also means more deaths. Do you support herd immunity as a strategy? Essentially, just let people get sick?

TRUMP: The cure can not be worse than the problem itself. We did the right thing. We were expected to lose 2,200,000 people, and maybe more than that. We're at 210,000 people. One person is too much, it should have never happened because of China. It happened because of China. And you have to get that and understand that. But it shouldn't have happened. But we were expected to lose, if you look at the original charts from original doctors who are respected by everybody, 2,200,00 people.

GUTHRIE: That 2 million figure, though, is if you literally did nothing.

TRUMP: We saved 2 million people.

GUTHRIE: The 2 million figure is if you did absolutely nothing, it would be 2 million. The question is, should the deaths be better than 200,000, when.

TRUMP: I don't know, let me tell you what is happening. I left North Carolina, which I love. I left Pennsylvania. We won a big case in Michigan because that governor has a lockdown where nobody but her husband can do anything. He can go boating and do whatever he wants, but nobody else can. The fact is we're winning all these cases because it's unconstitutional what they're doing. And I think they're doing it for political reasons. But the fact is the cure, you can't let this continue to go on with the lockdowns. And I believe that on November 4th, you're going to have a lot of these governors.

TRUMP: Look at what's happening to New York. New York is a mess. They lost almost 40,000 people. They have a lockdown like you've never seen. Now they're open, it's like a ghost town. And Savannah, it's very important. People are leaving New York by the thousands, and you're going to have a hard time ever building it up again. So that cure, that so called cure that you talk about, it can't be worse than the problem. The problem is a bad problem.

GUTHRIE: We've got more questions.

TRUMP: ... than the problem. The problem is a bad problem.

GUTHRIE: We've got more questions on COVID.

TRUMP: Okay, fine.

GUTHRIE: ... so let's drop it, for now. We were supposed to, as mentioned, be watching you on a debate stage right now. We're not doing that, so let's clear up a few things from the last one. You were asked point blank to denounce white supremacy. In the moment, you didn't. You asked some follow up questions. "Who, specifically?" A couple of days later, on a different show.

TRUMP: Oh, you always do this.

GUTHRIE: ... you denounced white supremacy.

TRUMP: No, you always do this.

GUTHRIE: My question to you is.

TRUMP: You've done this to me, and everybody.

GUTHRIE: ... why does it seem like.

TRUMP: I denounce white supremacy. Okay?

GUTHRIE: You did, two days later.

TRUMP: I've denounced white supremacy, for years, but you always do it. You always start off with the question. You didn't ask Joe Biden, whether or not he denounces Antifa. I watched him on the same basic show with Lester Holt, and he was asking questions like Biden was a child.

GUTHRIE: Well, so this is a little bit of a dodge.

TRUMP: So, are you ready? Are you... Wait. Are you listening? I denounce white supremacy.

GUTHRIE: Okay.

TRUMP: What's your next question?

GUTHRIE: Do you feel, it feels sometimes you're hesitant to do so, like you wait a beat.

TRUMP: Hesitant? Here we go again. Every time... In fact, my people came, "I'm sure they'll ask you the white supremacy question." I denounce white supremacy.

GUTHRIE: Okay.

TRUMP: And frankly, you want to know something? I denounce Antifa, and I denounce these people on the left that are burning down our cities, that are run by Democrats who don't know what they're doing.

GUTHRIE: All right, while we're denouncing, let me ask you about QAnon. It is this theory that Democrats are a satanic pedophile ring and that you are the savior, of that. Now can you just, once and for all, state that that is completely not true, and.

TRUMP: So, I know .

GUTHRIE: ... disavow QAnon.

TRUMP: Yeah.

GUTHRIE: ... in its entirety?

TRUMP: I know nothing about QAnon.

GUTHRIE: I just told you.

TRUMP: I know very little. You told me, but what you tell me, doesn't necessarily make it fact. I hate to say that. I know nothing about it. I do know they are very much against pedophilia. They fight it very hard. But I know nothing about it. If you'd like me to.

GUTHRIE: They believe that it is a Satanic cult run by the deep state.

TRUMP: ... study the subject. I'll tell you what I do know about. I know about Antifa, and I know about the radical left, and I know how violent they are and how vicious they are. And I know how they are burning down cities run by Democrats, not run by Republicans.

GUTHRIE: Republican Senator Ben Sasse said, quote, "QAnon is nuts and real leaders call conspiracy theories, conspiracy theories."

TRUMP: He may be right.

GUTHRIE: Why not just say, it's crazy and not true?

TRUMP: Can I be honest? He may be right. I just don't know about QAnon.

GUTHRIE: You do know.

TRUMP: I don't know. No, I don't know. I don't know. You tell me all about it.

GUTHRIE: Let me ask you another thing.

TRUMP: Let's waste the whole show. You start off with white supremacy. I denounce it. You start off with something else. Let's go. Keep asking me these questions. But let me just.

GUTHRIE: Okay, I do have one more in this vein.

TRUMP: ... let me just tell you. What I do hear about it, is they are very strongly against pedophilia. And I agree with that. I mean, I do agree with that.

GUTHRIE: Okay.

TRUMP: ... and I agree with it very strongly.

GUTHRIE: But there's not a Satanic pedophile cult being run by.

TRUMP: I have no idea. I know nothing about them.

GUTHRIE: You don't know that? Okay.

TRUMP: No, I don't know that.

GUTHRIE: You, just this week.

TRUMP: And neither do you, know that.

GUTHRIE: Okay. Just this week, you retweeted.

TRUMP: Why aren't you asking me about Antifa? Why aren't you asking me about the radical left?

GUTHRIE: Because you just, because you're volunteering it.

TRUMP: Why aren't you asking Joe Biden questions about, why doesn't he condemn Antifa? Why does he say it doesn't exist?

GUTHRIE: Because you're here, before me.

TRUMP: Antifa, no, excuse me. That's so cute. Antifa exists. They're vicious, they're violent. They kill people, and they're burning down our cities. And they happen to be radical left.

GUTHRIE: Just this week, you retweeted to your 87 million followers, a conspiracy theory that Joe Biden orchestrated to have SEAL Team Six, the Navy SEAL Team Six, killed to cover up the fake death of Bin Laden. Now, why would you send a lie like that to your followers?

TRUMP: I know nothing about it, can I .

GUTHRIE: You retweeted it.

TRUMP: That was a retweet. That was an opinion of somebody.

GUTHRIE: But.

TRUMP: .... and that was a retweet. I'll put it out there. People can decide for themselves. I don't take a position.

GUTHRIE: I don't get that, you're the President. You're not like, someone's crazy uncle who can just.

TRUMP: No, no. No, no.

GUTHRIE: ... retweet, whatever.

TRUMP: That was a retweet. And I do a lot of retweets. And frankly, because the media is so fake, and so corrupt, if I didn't have social media... I don't call it Twitter, I call it social media. I wouldn't be able to get the word out. And the word is.

GUTHRIE: Well, the word is false.

TRUMP: ... and you know what the word is? The word is very simple. We're building our country, stronger and better than it's ever been before.

GUTHRIE: Let's stop.

TRUMP: And that's what's happening. And everybody knows it.

GUTHRIE: Okay, we've got a bunch of questions for you.

TRUMP: You know what else the word is? We're winning in a lot of states.

GUTHRIE: Okay.

TRUMP: We're winning in a lot of States. You're going to see that.

GUTHRIE: Well, let me ask... Okay. I'm glad you brought up the election, because I do want to ask about that. That's another kind of leftover item. A lot of people have asked you, will you accept a peaceful transfer of power? You have said, repeatedly, "The only way we lose this election is, if it is rigged." Now, that is simply not true. The fact is, either candidate can lose fair and square, without ballot fraud.

TRUMP: Sure, they can. And do you know what?

GUTHRIE: So, will you accept the results of the election?

TRUMP: Win or lose, that's the way I want it to be. But when I see thousands of ballots, right? Unsolicited ballots, being given out by the millions, and thousands of them are dumped in dumpsters. And when you see ballots with the name Trump, military ballots, from our great military. And they're dumped in garbage cans.

GUTHRIE: That is a handful... We could go all night, which we won't.

TRUMP: No, no, it's happening every day.

GUTHRIE: But, we could go all night, one by one. A single case, a single day. You're talking about 150 million votes. Your own FBI director says, there is no evidence of widespread fraud.

TRUMP: Oh, really? Well, then he's not doing a very good job. All you have to do is pick up the papers every day. 50,000 in Ohio, the great state of Ohio. 50,000 in another location, I think North Carolina. 500,000 applications in Virginia. No, no, there's a tremendous problem.

TRUMP: But let me just tell you, they talk about the peaceful transfer, right? They spied on my campaign and they got caught. And they spied heavily, on my campaign. And they tried to take down a duly elected sitting president. And then, they talk about, "Will you accept a peaceful transfer?" And the answer is, yes, I will. But I want it to be an honest election. And so does everybody else. When I see thousands of ballots dumped in a garbage can, and they happen to have my name on it? I'm not happy about that.

GUTHRIE: Okay, but just... Those are case, there is no, there is in fact, no evidence of widespread fraud. And you are sowing doubt about our democracy.

TRUMP: Could I ask you, how can you say that?

GUTHRIE: Our democracy.

TRUMP: How can you say that? You do read newspapers?

GUTHRIE: I do.

TRUMP: You do watch the news?

GUTHRIE: Yes, I do.

TRUMP: I know you read the news, but do you watch it?

GUTHRIE: I do.

TRUMP: Because, every day, they're talking about ballots that are corrupt, that are fraudulent.

GUTHRIE: And millions that are.

TRUMP: Sure.

GUTHRIE: ... being processed right now.

TRUMP: Sure, sure. But you can win a race... Take a look at me. You can win a race by 1%.

GUTHRIE: So why are you laying the groundwork for that, right now?

TRUMP: I'm not, I don't want that to happen.

GUTHRIE: It's like, if I go play tennis with my husband and I say, " My ankle is hurting right now."

TRUMP: You know what? I don't want that to happen. Savannah. I want it to be clean.

GUTHRIE: Okay.

TRUMP: And I want... I really feel we're going to win, but I want this to be clean.

GUTHRIE: Let's get to questions.

TRUMP: But it's sort of ironic that you, and them, talk about the peaceful transfer when I spent three and a half years fighting off these maniacs. And now, it turns out, everything's there. That they were the ones that dealt with Russia, and it's too bad.

GUTHRIE: Okay.

TRUMP: Peaceful transfer, I absolutely want that. But ideally, I don't want to transfer, because I want to win.

GUTHRIE: Yes. And I think that, your words will probably reassure some folks. Let's get to our first voter. We've got Jacqueline Lugo. Now she is, I told you, this audience is truly split between y'all. You are leaning Biden, she voted for Clinton in 2016. She's registered as an Independent. Jacqueline, what's your question for the President? And hold the mic up close, and take off your mic, because it's hard to hear, out here.

TRUMP: Sure.

LUGO: Good evening.

TRUMP: How are you?

LUGO: Welcome to Miami.

TRUMP: Thank you very much, it's beautiful.

LUGO: Mr. President, if you knew COVID-19, as you told Bob Woodward in February.

TRUMP: As what?

LUGO: As you told Bob Woodward in February, was airborne and deadlier than the flu, why did you only put in place a travel ban from China, and not put in place other measures mitigating the spread of COVID-19, potentially saving tens of thousands of American lives?

TRUMP: Well, I did put it in very early, as you know, Joe Biden was two months behind me, and he called me xenophobic and racist and everything else, because I put it in. And it turned out that I was 100% right. I also put it on Europe, very early, because I saw there was a lot of infection in Europe. And it's sort of an amazing question. And I appreciate the question, and respect the question, but the news doesn't get out the right answer.

TRUMP: Because I put on a travel ban far earlier than Dr. Fauci thought it was necessary. Who I like. Far earlier than the scientists... I was actually the only one that wanted to put it on. And I did it, actually against the advice of a lot of people, including Nancy Pelosi who had no clue what she was doing. And, Biden.

TRUMP: When I put on the travel ban... You know, I put it on in January. The end of January. When I put on the travel ban Joe Biden, and others, said, "This is ridiculous. You don't do that." Well, Dr. Fauci said, I saved thousands and thousands of lives.

GUTHRIE: Did you .

TRUMP: I was early, I was extremely early, when I put on the travel ban.

GUTHRIE: Can I ask you, did your National Security Advisor, on January 28th in the Oval Office, warn you that this would be the greatest national security risk of your administration?

TRUMP: I read that, but no, he didn't.

GUTHRIE: He didn't say it, or you don't remember?

TRUMP: I read it... I read it, someplace. Maybe Woodward said it, or something. But no, he did not say that. But, I knew it was a big threat. At the same time, I don't want to panic this country. I don't want to go out and say, "Everybody's going to die. Everybody's going to-"

GUTHRIE: Isn't there a middle ground?

TRUMP: Okay?

GUTHRIE: You don't have to mislead.

TRUMP: No, there's not a middle ground.

GUTHRIE: ... but you can.

TRUMP: No, no. No. There's not a middle ground. You have to be safe. You have to be vigilant, and you have to be smart.

GUTHRIE: You're going to like this next couple of voters.

TRUMP: Okay. Good.

GUTHRIE: It's a mom and a daughter. Mom, Barbara voted for you in 2016. She's leaning to vote for you again. Now, her daughter was too young to vote last time, she's going to vote for her first time in a presidential campaign. And she is leaning, Biden. So imagine the dinner table at their house. Okay?

TRUMP: We'll talk you out of it.

GUTHRIE: So Barbara, why don't you go first, and ask your question.

TRUMP: Miami.

GUTHRIE: Thank you.

BPENA: Mr. Trump, as a frontline ER doctor, working through the coronavirus pandemic.

TRUMP: Right.

BPENA: ... I know firsthand, and I've seen that many hospitals throughout the United States, are suffering financial hardships. These economic effects are trickling down to the frontline workers.

TRUMP: Right.

BPENA: We are being... Across the country, frontline workers are being fired, they're being furloughed. Our salaries are being cut, and this is also happening another economic sectors as well, including the travel industry and hospitality.

TRUMP: Right.

BPENA: My question to you is, how are you going to get the United States back on track, both in terms of the economy and the pandemic?

TRUMP: So, it's happening. We just set a record, 11.4 million jobs. We are going to have a phenomenal third quarter, which will be announced on November 1st, just prior to the big November 3rd day, where I think you're going to see a red wave. But we're going to have a tremendous announcement. I believe. I mean, we're going to find out, but GDP is going through the roof. Jobs, real estate, houses. So many things are happening.

TRUMP: So, people were saying, we're going to have a 42% unemployment. Look, this was a thing that came into our country and it happened a hundred, more than a hundred years ago, and it happened now. They were talking about a 42% unemployment rate.

GUTHRIE: Who was talking about that?

TRUMP: It came out, it just came out.

GUTHRIE: I heard, 20%.

TRUMP: ... at 7.8% unemployment, and people can't even believe it. Our economy is going to be... Next year, if we don't have somebody that raises taxes and quadruples taxes, which they want to do, and it kills everything. Our economy is going to be phenomenal, next year. We're going to have a phenomenal...

TRUMP: And, I'll tell you, Savannah. We had the greatest economy in the history of our country last year, including the state of Florida, where we are now. In Pennsylvania, in North Carolina, in Ohio, every place. We had the greatest economy we ever had. We had to close it down, we saved two million lives. We're opening it up. We have a V-shape and it's coming back. It's coming back very fast.

TRUMP: One other thing, we really helped the hospitals. We've sent billions and billions of dollars to the hospitals. In addition, hundreds of millions of masks and gowns. And we went into the ventilator business, because this country was not equipped with ventilators. And I'm not blaming anybody for it. But we're now making thousands of ventilators a month, and we have all we can use. We're sending them all over the world, because the world needs them. So, they've worked very hard and really very, very effectively. Thank you. Great question.

GUTHRIE: Let's talk to Isabella, and put the mic close to your mouth. Okay, go ahead.

IPENA: Mr. President, my parents are, as you heard, both frontline healthcare workers. And I've seen the physical and the mental toll that this pandemic has taken on them, firsthand. As well as the exacerbation of coronavirus, due to Americans who are not wearing masks or participating in social distancing. After contracting COVID-19 yourself, has your opinion changed on the importance of mask wearing?

TRUMP: No, because I was okay with the masks. I was good with it, but I've heard many different stories on masks. I had, being president, you have people, they bring meals, they bring this, they... And I had an instance recently, where a very wonderful person is bringing me a meal, and he's playing with his mask. And he's touching his mask, all over the place.

TRUMP: And then he's bringing a plate in, and I'm saying, "Well, I don't know if that's so good." I mean, the good news, I didn't eat it. Okay? I decided not to eat it. This was a month ago. But I... Look, look, you have, on the masks, you have two stories. You have a story where they want, a story where they don't want. I am all for it.

GUTHRIE: Who is, I don't get that, because it's just... All of your public health officials, your administration, they're in unison about this.

TRUMP: Some. No.

GUTHRIE: They're all in unison about it.

TRUMP: No, the .

GUTHRIE: The University of Washington, which is, they have a model that your coronavirus task force relies on. Says that, if everyone wore a mask, you could cut expected deaths in half.

TRUMP: And then, you have other people that disagree.

GUTHRIE: 60,000 lives. Well, what does that mean?

TRUMP: Scott Atkins, if you look at Scott, Dr. Scott. He's from, great guy, Stanford. He will tell you that, he disagrees with you.

GUTHRIE: He's not an infectious disease expert.

TRUMP: Oh, I don't know. Look, he's an expert. He's one of the great experts of the world.

GUTHRIE: But I don't get it, because you have so much power and influence as president.

TRUMP: I'm all for it.

GUTHRIE: And you could go to your... You could require it.

TRUMP: By the way.

GUTHRIE: ... at your rallies, and you could say.

TRUMP: I never said, "Don't wear them."

GUTHRIE: "Everyone put on a mask right now." And the University of Washington says, you would save lives.

TRUMP: Savannah, University of Washington. And then, you have other places, say different things. You have a lot of... Hey. Dr. Fauci said, "Don't wear a mask," right?

GUTHRIE: At first, but then everybody agreed.

TRUMP: Oh, I don't know. Then he changed his mind. But then, you have a report coming out two days ago, that 85% of the people wearing masks catch it.

GUTHRIE: I looked at that report, it's not about mask wearing. It was neutral on the question of masks.

TRUMP: Savannah. We're on the same side. I say, wear the mask. I'm fine with it.

GUTHRIE: Okay. Okay.

TRUMP: I have no problem. We're on the same side.

GUTHRIE: Let's take a break. We're going to get more questions, right after this.

TRUMP: Thank you.

TRUMP: .

GUTHRIE: And we're back. We're live in Miami with President Trump for a town hall. Live in Miami with President Trump for a town hall. Thank you again, Mr. President. We have another voter. Now, Christie Alonzo, come on out, Christie, she is leaning slightly towards you, she says. She voted for you in 2016. Christie, you ready? Take the mask off, hold the mic close, and let's hear your question.

ALONSO: Thank you for your service, Mr. President.

TRUMP: Thank you. Thank you very much.

ALONSO: We're a hard-working middle-class family of four. My husband and I are both self-employed, and we have to get our own individual healthcare. As you know, healthcare costs have gone up considerably over the decades. And you had originally said you were going to repeal and replace Obamacare. What is your plan now in 2020 to make healthcare costs affordable for Americans like myself?

TRUMP: Good. So we got rid of the individual mandate on Obamacare, which was the worst part of Obamacare, and now you could actually say it's not Obamacare because that's how big it was, where you had to pay a fortune for the privilege of not having to pay for bad health insurance, so we got rid of that. That was a big, big thing. And by doing that, and we will always have... By the way, we're always protecting people with pre-existing conditions, and I can't say that more strongly, but we've been able to bring healthcare costs way down. Now, I took over Obamacare, got rid of the individual mandate, made it good, managed it much better. Remember, they had the $5 billion website disaster, and all of the problems they had. The problem with Obamacare, it's not good. We'd like to terminate it, and we want a much less expensive healthcare that's a much better healthcare, and that's where we're aiming. And if we can do that, and we have a very good chance of doing it, but we've also brought down the price of Obamacare. The problem with Obamacare, it basically is never going to be great, and I want to give great healthcare. So important. And thank you very much.

GUTHRIE: Mr. President, I got a follow-up pre-existing conditions. This is such a big issue for voters.

TRUMP: It is a big issue for me too.

GUTHRIE: In point of fact, your administration is about to go to the Supreme Court to argue to throw out the rest of Obamacare, which includes the protections for preexisting conditions.

TRUMP: That's right. That's right.

GUTHRIE: So your administration is in court right now, trying to get rid of that protection.

TRUMP: In order to replace it with a much better healthcare at a much lower price. And always, under all circumstances, we are going to protect the Republicans. And maybe I changed the party a lot over the last three years, but we will protect people with preexisting conditions. And Savannah, what I want to do, get rid of the terrible Obamacare. I've already done it to a large extent because as you know, the individual mandate is gone. That was the worst part.

GUTHRIE: You repealed, but you haven't replaced.

TRUMP: No, no.

GUTHRIE: Now, you've been in office almost four years.

TRUMP: We have done.

GUTHRIE: You have both houses of Congress, Senate and House, in Republican hands, and there is not a replacement yet.

TRUMP: That's right. I'm sorry, but if you look, we had both houses and what did we do? We got rid of the individual mandate. That went through the legislature.

GUTHRIE: But the promise was repeal and replace.

TRUMP: Look, look. We should be on the same side. I wanted very simple. I'm going to put it very simple. We would like to terminate it, and we would like to replace it with something that's much less expensive and much better. We will always protect people with preexisting conditions.

GUTHRIE: But if you're successful in court.

TRUMP: And here's the thing.

GUTHRIE: ... in November, those preexisting conditions, that promise will be gone.

TRUMP: If we don't succeed, we are running the remnants of whatever's left because we took it apart. We are running the remnants of whatever's left much better than the previous administration, which ran it very badly, but we'd like to have new healthcare much better and much less expensive.

GUTHRIE: Let me get to question number five. And you'll like this, he's stuck in traffic. His name is Joe White. He is registered as a Democrat. He says he's leaning toward Biden and voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016. And his question was a, a second stimulus payment has been broadly agreed upon by the Republicans and Democrats, and yet, now we're in October and it's still not passed. Why not use your office to make the second stimulus payment a separate targeted emergency relief package to help Americans weather the pandemic?

TRUMP: Well, we've actually passed three packages, and we're on our fourth, and I agree with him 100%. He should vote for me. The problem you have is Nancy Pelosi. She couldn't care less about the worker. She couldn't care less about our people. And we should have a stimulus, and I want a stimulus. The Republicans will approve a stimulus. The problem is she doesn't want to do it because she thinks it's bad for her election. The fact is, she's wrong because people know she's in our way, she's not approving it, she doesn't appreciate our people, and she doesn't appreciate, at all, our workers. Nancy Pelosi, we are ready to sign and pass stimulus, but she's got to approve it.

GUTHRIE: People do not love the back and forth of Washington, but this has been a rollercoaster. Back in early October, you one day tweeted, "No more negotiations until after election day. I'm walking away." Then, I think the next couple of days you said, "Maybe we can do something targeted."

TRUMP: That's right.

GUTHRIE: Then you said, "I want a big, big bill." But then Senate Republicans said, "No, we're not for that." So you are the big deal-maker. How come this is so... You yourself had changed positions.

TRUMP: That's right. Did you ever hear a word called negotiation when negotiating? Okay. I'm negotiating.

GUTHRIE: But people's lives are hanging in the balance.

TRUMP: You know what? And you know who I'm negotiating against? Nancy Pelosi, because she doesn't want to give them money. We should have stimulus. This was not our people's fault. This was China's fault. And she's penalizing our people. I'm ready to sign a big, beautiful stimulus. You saw the other day, I said, "Go big or go home." Right?

GUTHRIE: That's what I was talking about.

TRUMP: I want it to be big. I want it to be bold. I want the money to go to directly to the people.

GUTHRIE: Senate Republicans with you, they're going to go big?

TRUMP: They'll go. Yeah, they'll go. They'll go. They're going be very active.

GUTHRIE: Okay, because so far, they have not said they would.

TRUMP: I know, because I haven't asked them to because I can't get through Nancy Pelosi.

GUTHRIE: Okay.

TRUMP: If Nancy Pelosi and I, through my representatives or directly, I don't care, if we agree to something, the Republicans will agree to it.

GUTHRIE: Okay. Our next question comes from... Oh, this is interesting. She voted for Clinton in 2016, but recently changed her registration from Democrat to Independent. She says she's truly undecided. Her name's Becky Lightman. Hello, Becky. What's your question?

TRUMP: How are you?

BPENA: Hi, I'm great. How are you?

TRUMP: Nice to see you. Thank you.

BPENA: Good to see you. So corporate tax rates are a hot button issue and you have cut corporate tax rates. And your opponent, Joe Biden, is planning to raise them. A lot of Americans think that corporations don't pay their share of taxes and want to see those tax rates increase. What do you say to those Americans to maybe tell them why you want the corporate tax rate lower and why that helps them?

TRUMP: It's a great question. We've created more jobs than this country has ever created. We were up to 160 million jobs. We were never even close to that number. We were just hitting 160 million jobs, companies are pouring into our nation because of the tax rate, and if Biden comes in and raises taxes on everybody, including middle income taxes, which he wants to do, you will blow this thing, and you'll end up with a depression, the likes of which you've never had. That's what's going to happen. We have something that's really good. The reason we're coming back so strong is because we built a very strong foundation. Companies are moving in. Car companies are moving into Michigan, into Ohio, into South Carolina, and North Carolina just today, so what's happening is, they're coming in because we reduced the taxes. Our taxes, our corporate taxes were the highest in the world, and now they're among the lower taxes. They're not the lowest, but they're among the lowest. And what that means, is jobs, but also we're doing a very big, and we've done a very big, middle income tax package. So if we get in, we're going to do the middle income tax package, but it's a great question. And if he comes along and raises rates, all those companies that are coming in, they will leave the U.S. so fast your head will spin. We can't let that happen. Thank you.

GUTHRIE: On the subject of taxes, as you know, the New York times has obtained, it says years of your tax returns among other things, it says that you have debts of approximately $421 million that you have personally guaranteed, and that will come due in the next four years. The question is, on behalf of voters, who do you owe $421 million to?

TRUMP: Okay, first of all, let me answer. What they did is illegal, number one. Also, the numbers are all wrong, with the numbers they released. And just so you understand, when you have a lot of real estate, I have real estate, you know a lot of it. Okay? Right down the road, Doral, big stuff, great stuff. When I decided to run, I'm very underlevered, fortunately, but I'm very underlevered. I have a very, very small percentage of debt compared. In fact, some of it, I did as favors to institutions that wanted to loan me money. $400 million compared to the assets that I have, all of these great properties all over the world, and frankly, The Bank of America building in San Francisco. I don't love what's happening to San Francisco. 1290 Avenue of the Americas, one of the biggest office buildings.

GUTHRIE: Well do I hear you right? It sounds like you're saying $400 million isn't that much. But are you confirming that, yes, you do owe some $400 million?

TRUMP: What I'm saying is that, it's a tiny percentage of my net worth.

GUTHRIE: That sounds like yes.

TRUMP: And you'll see that soon because we're doing things. We've given, I think it's 108 or 112 pages of financial detail to elections, and we have to file as the president, as any politician, you have to file. Nobody ever looks at that. When they do, they see how incredible a company is, but more importantly, they see where this debt is. No, I don't owe Russia money. I owe a very, very small... It's called mortgages. People have a house, they put a mortgage.

GUTHRIE: Any foreign bank? Any foreign entity?

TRUMP: Not that I know of, but I will probably, because it's so easy to solve, and if you'd like to do, I will let you know who I owe, whatever small amount of money. I want to say two things. Number one, it's a very small amount of money. Number two, it's very straight. It's very, very straight, but it's a tiny percentage of the worth. Did you ever hear the expression underlevered?

GUTHRIE: Yeah.

TRUMP: I am extremely underlevered.

GUTHRIE: Well, here's the thing. You could clear this up tonight by just releasing your tax returns yourself. That's what I don't understand. I think people are just wondering, you're the only.

TRUMP: As you know, I'm under audit. It turned out that I am under audit.

GUTHRIE: Yes, but the IRS said... You are.

TRUMP: But they actually... Excuse me. No, no.

GUTHRIE: But the IRS says that doesn't stop you from releasing.

TRUMP: But you accused me of not being under audit previously.

GUTHRIE: I did not.

TRUMP: And so did other people at NBC. And I am under audit.

GUTHRIE: You are.

TRUMP: So that one's solved. That's good. I am under audit. No person in their right mind would release, prior to working out the deal with the IRS. And I'll go a step further. I'm treated very badly by the IRS. They treat me very, very badly. You have people in there from previous administrations that treat me very badly, but we're under audit. It's very routine, in many ways, but we're under audit. They like to change the game, change the rules, do everything. You saw what they did with the tea party people. You saw what they did with the religious group.

GUTHRIE: But to be clear, there is no law or rule that prohibits you from releasing your tax returns.

TRUMP: No, except common sense, and intelligence, and having lawyers that say... Because I would love to release them, and as soon as we come to a conclusion, I will release them, and very gladly, but if you go to elections, and if you take a look, you'll see 112, I think it's 112, it talks about the income, which is rather massive. It talks about all of the properties. They have them listed. You can never learn more, but you know what happened? People went there. All the reporters went. There was a feeding frenzy. This was originally, when I filed it. And I filed it every year. I update it every year. My son is here. They run the company. I don't run the company.

GUTHRIE: It also says that you've paid $750 in taxes in the year you were elected. Is that true or not?

TRUMP: Yeah, because that's a statutory number. It's a statutory.

GUTHRIE: But is that true?

TRUMP: I think it's a filing number. You pay 750, it's a filing or a filing fee.

GUTHRIE: But is that all you paid? Because most people here probably paid more.

TRUMP: No, I don't know. I can tell you this. If they have my tax returns, as you know, they have to go to jail. It's illegal, but their numbers were wrong, but let me tell you what else. I don't owe money to any of these sinister people. This has been going on for years now. Russia, Russia, Russia. It turned out to be a hoax, and it turned out to be that Hillary Clinton and the Democrats were dealing with Russia, not me. It's a whole hoax. So I would not mind at all saying who it is, but it's a very small... When you look at vast properties like I have, and they're big, and they're beautiful, and they're well located. When you look at that, the amount of money, $400 million is a peanut. It's extremely underlevered. And it's levered with normal banks. Not a big deal.

GUTHRIE: All right, let's take a break. We'll get more voter questions right after this.

TRUMP: Thank you. Thank you.

GUTHRIE: We are live in Miami, in the middle of a town hall with President Trump. Thank you again.

GUTHRIE: We are live in Miami in the middle of a town hall with President Trump. Thank you again for being here.

TRUMP: Thank you.

GUTHRIE: We've got another voter, Adam Schucher. He voted for Clinton in 2016. He's registered as a Democrat and says he's supporting Biden. Adam, take it away.

SCHUCHER: Thank you, Savannah. Thank you, Mr. President.

TRUMP: Thank you, Adam.

SCHUCHER: Four years ago, Senate leadership said it was inappropriate to push through a nominee in an election year, yet they fast-tracked your nominee for the Supreme Court just today. The question I have for you is, what do you say to the voter that thinks it's hypocritical to act in that manner and that they can't trust Republicans' word?

TRUMP: So when I was elected, and when a president is elected, they're elected for a period of four years. And Justice Ginsburg said it best. I think, talking about president Obama having to do with somebody else, that the president is put there for four years, not for three years. So during this fourth year, it happened to come up, unfortunately, because I had great respect for Justice Ginsburg. But a vacancy happened to come up, and we picked somebody that's outstanding. She has been an absolute star, and I'm extremely proud of it. But again, plenty of time.

TRUMP: There's plenty of time. We're going to do it before the election, but we also have much time after the election. But there's no reason to wait, because it's almost unanimous, it seems to me, certainly within the Republican party. And frankly, most of the Democrats within closed rooms, I guarantee you that. This is an outstanding person, and I'm using my fourth term. And if you look at it and if you put the shoe on the other foot, if they had this, they would do it 100%. So there's been 29 times when this has happened. All 29 times a president has done exactly what I've done.

GUTHRIE: To the voter's point, I'll just say that in 2016, you were on another show, actually another morning show, and you were asked whether President Obama should nominate a Supreme Court Justice Merrick Garland. And you said, "I think the Senate should wait until the next president, and let the president pick." Now that was eight months before the election. This is three weeks before the election.

TRUMP: So I have a lot of respect, by the way, for.

GUTHRIE: So you have changed your position on this?

TRUMP: I have a lot of respect for Judge Garland. I want to tell you that. But I'll tell you, the whole ball game changed when I saw the way they treated Justice Kavanaugh. I have never seen any human being, and I'm not just talking about Supreme Court... I have never seen a human being treated so badly with false accusations and everything else. I have never seen anything like it. And you know what the truth is, Savannah? Like it or not, the ball game changed a lot. There has never been anybody treated so badly as, now Justice Kavanaugh.

GUTHRIE: You've mentioned that you would like to see Amy Coney Barrett confirmed to the Supreme Court in case any challenges come up in connection with the election. Do you expect her to rule for you?

TRUMP: Well, I think she'll have to make that decision. I don't think she has any conflict at all. A Supreme Court judge does not have... They can make their own decision. They actually have additional power to make that decision. It would be totally up to her. I would think that she would be able to rule either for me or against me, being I don't see any conflict whatsoever. We have an election coming up. I think it's the most important election in the history of our country. If for any chance, and it probably won't... And I hope it doesn't ever get to the Supreme Court. But if it did, I would think that she would rule one way or the other. I would think so.

GUTHRIE: But for you? You think she would rule for you?

TRUMP: I have no idea.

GUTHRIE: Of course she'll rule one way or the other, but.

TRUMP: Because believe it or not, I never asked her about it. I never talked about it. I didn't talk about any of the obvious things that you could talk about. And I think a lot of people in my position might. But in speaking to a lot of very brilliant people and people that do this for a living, they say it's better not to talk. So I talked to her about life. I talked to her about the fact, "Would you like to do this? Are you willing to do this?" Because it's a tremendous burden. The answer was, "Yes." She's unbelievably well-qualified, but I never spoke to her about these various questions.

GUTHRIE: Let's get our next voter. She's leaning to you, Mr. President. She voted for you in 2016. She is a registered Republican. Her name is Moriah Greene. Mariah, what's your question?

TRUMP: Thank you very much.

GEENE: Thank you. Good evening, Mr. President. I'm honored to be with you here tonight, sir. So thank you. I'm a pro-life millennial. And my question for you today is, if Roe v. Wade is ultimately overturned in the future, what protections would be put in place or kept for where the mother's life is in jeopardy in relation to high risk pregnancies?

TRUMP: Well, again, I'm not ruling on this. And Roe v. Wade is something that a lot of people would say, obviously, you're going to speak to somebody. Also two other great Justices, Justice Gorsuch, and Justice Kavanaugh... I never spoke to them about Roe v. Wade. I never spoke to them about election laws. I never spoke to them about anything. And I've done the right thing from a moral standpoint. I don't even know from a legal standpoint, but it was the right thing. I think, depending on what happens with Roe v. Wade, I think that perhaps it could get sent down to the states, and the states would decide. I also think perhaps nothing will happen. I have not talked to her about it. I think it would be inappropriate to talk to her about it. And some people would say, "You can talk to about it." I just think it would be inappropriate.

GUTHRIE: But what is your preference? Because agreed, that's not something you should talk to the judge about. But would you like to see Roe versus Wade overturned?

TRUMP: I would like to see a brilliant jurist, a brilliant person who has done this in great depth and has actually skirted this issue for a long time, make a decision. And that's why I chose her. I think that she's going to make a great decision. I did not tell her what decision to make. And I think it would be inappropriate to say right now, because I don't want to do anything to influence her. I want her to get approved, and then I want her to go by the law. And I know she's going to make a great decision for our country, along with the other two people I put there.

GUTHRIE: You're running as a pro-life Republican. Most pro-life Republicans would like to see Roe v. Wade overturned and abortion banned.

TRUMP: Many of them would. Perhaps most of them would. I am telling you, I don't want to do anything to influence anything right now. I don't want to go out tomorrow and say, "Oh, he's trying to give her a signal." Because I didn't speak to her about it. I've done the right thing in so doing. How she's going to rule, you're going to find out perhaps. Or you might not find out. It may never get there. It may never get there. We'll see what happens.

GUTHRIE: All right. We have another question. This is Cindy Velez. She is undecided. She says she's leaning to Biden, and she did vote for Clinton in 2016. She's registered as a Democrat. Hi Cindy. What's your question?

VELEZ: Good evening, Savannah.

TRUMP: Hi, Cindy. Thank you.

VELEZ: Good evening, Mr. President.

TRUMP: Thank you very much.

VELEZ: As the mother of a young male of color, I have reason to respect authority, not only because it's the right thing to do, but also out of fear that he may face profiling or be considered a criminal. As an educator, I've also had similar conversations with my high school students. Mr. President, what will you and your administration do to better prepare our law enforcement officers to work in collaboration with the communities that they serve and also to protect the lives of innocent Black and Latinos from police brutality and injustice?

TRUMP: Right. I fully understand the question, and I saw everything that you saw over the summer. And it was a terrible thing, a terrible thing to watch. We have a Senator named Tim Scott from South Carolina. He came up with a bill that should have been approved. It was great. It was a bill that was strong in terms of law enforcement, and strong in terms of enforcing the proper thing, and doing the proper thing by law enforcement. And the Democrats just wouldn't go for it. They wouldn't go for it at all. And I don't know why, because it was a really great bill. But I do have to say this. And some people don't like it when I say it, but a lot of people agree. I have done more for the African American community than any president. With the exception of Abraham Lincoln. Criminal justice reform, prison reform, historically Black colleges and universities. I got them funded.

TRUMP: They were on a year to year basis. They could have been put out of business. As soon as our country had a little bad year, they would have said, "I'm sorry, we're not going to fund you." I got them 10 year funding and financing. And more than they even asked for. I became very friendly with a lot of the heads. But we've done more... And of course, opportunity zones. But criminal justice reform, everybody said it could not be done. President Obama and Biden never even tried to do it. They never even tried. But I say that, and I say it often. I'll say it loud, and I'm very proud of it. And I have a great relationship because of what I've done with the African-American community. I'm very proud of it.

GUTHRIE: Let's go to our next question. We have Paulette Dale, she leans slightly to Biden. She voted for Clinton in 2016. She's registered as a Republican. Paulette, what's your question?

DALE: Thank you. Good evening, Mr. President.

TRUMP: Thank you. Thank you very much.

DALE: I have to say, you have a great smile.

TRUMP: Got you. Thank you.

DALE: He does. You're so handsome when you smile. As the daughter of immigrants to the United States who fled Eastern Europe due to religious persecution, the United States immigration policies are very personal for me.

TRUMP: Right.

DALE: Surveys show that most Americans, and the majority of Republicans, support the Dreamers program. So my question for you, Mr. President, is if you are elected to a second term, do you expect to pursue your previous efforts to cut the DACA program?

TRUMP: Yeah.

DALE: Why or why not?

TRUMP: DACA is somewhat different than Dreamers. You understand that, and you understand it better than anybody, probably, in this room. Where do you come from, by the way, originally? Where?

DALE: My grandparents were from Russia and Poland.

TRUMP: That's very good. Okay. So we are going to take care of DACA. We're going to take care of Dreamer. It's working right now. We're negotiating different aspects of immigration and immigration law. We've built now, over 400 miles of border wall, southern border. Mexico is working very closely with us. We have the strongest border we've ever had. We want people to come into our country. They have to come in legally. But we are working very hard on the DACA program. And you will be, I think, very happy over the course of the next year.

DALE: Thank you.

TRUMP: Because I feel the same way as you do about it.

DALE: Thank you, Mr. President.

TRUMP: Thank you. Thank you very much.

GUTHRIE: Mr. President, in point of fact, the DACA program... Under your administration, no new applicants are allowed. And in fact, the DACA recipients now have to renew every year as opposed to every two years. So in fact, the DACA program has been curtailed by your administration.

TRUMP: Well, what happens is because of the pandemic, much changed on the immigration front. Mexico is heavily infected, as you know. And we've made it very, very difficult to come in because of the pandemic, and other reasons, and crime. But we have a very strong border right now, and we have to keep it that way. But we want people to come into our country, but they have to come in through a merit system, and they have to come in legally. And people are very, very happy with it. You haven't heard any complaints about that. But what happened is because of the pandemic, we have to be extra cautious.

GUTHRIE: You have been promising this immigration bill since, well, at least July, when you told my colleague on Telemundo it was coming. But nothing's come yet.

TRUMP: It's very happy. The fact is, we got rid of catch and release, which is a disaster. You catch somebody. They could be a murderer. That could be a rapist, and we're supposed to release them into our country. These are the laws that I inherited. We ended that program. Now, I think you're going to see something very, very good. The whole immigration... If you look at what's going on, people used to pour into our country. And especially during the pandemic, I think even you, Savannah, will be very impressed with what we've done.

GUTHRIE: Sir, we have about 30 seconds left.

TRUMP: Sure.

GUTHRIE: I think about people sitting out there tonight. There are some who love you. Some of them are sitting right around here, and some who will never vote for you. But there are people in the middle. There are people who aren't sure.

TRUMP: That's right.

GUTHRIE: There are people who want to know why they should give you a second chance and how you might improve in a second term. 30 seconds. What would you say to them?

TRUMP: Because I've done a great job. We have the strongest economy in the world. We closed it up. We are coming around the corner. The vaccines are coming out soon, and our economy is strong. We are at a level with jobs like we've never been before. We've rebuilt our military. We've rebuilt our borders. We had no borders. We had no nothing. We've rebuilt so much. We've given you the greatest tax cut in the history of our country. Greatest regulation cut, equally as important. And we created new levels of jobs that nobody thought was possible. And next year is going to be better than ever before.

GUTHRIE: I got to leave it there. I got a wrap from the control room. Mr. President, thank you for your time.

TRUMP: Thank you very much.

GUTHRIE: Thank you for listening to the voters' questions. That concludes our town hall. We do want to thank the president again, as well as our audience in hot Miami, and all of you watching at home. And a reminder, Donald Trump and Joe Biden are scheduled to meet in person a week from tonight in Nashville, a second and final presidential debate, moderated by our own Kristen Welker. Have a good evening, and thanks for being with us.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Hey, and welcome to our town hall with Joe Biden. Mr. Vice President, welcome to you.

BIDEN: Good to be with you.

STEPHANOPOULOS: We're here with a group of Pennsylvania voters. You can see they're all appropriately socially distanced tonight. And there are a group of, some are voting for you, some have said they're voting for president Trump, some are still undecided, and we're going to try to take questions from as many of them as we can tonight.

BIDEN: Okay.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And we're going to start with Nicholas Fed, and he's from Jenkintown, Pennsylvania. That's close to here, in Philadelphia.

BIDEN: I know it well.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You're a Democrat.

FED: I'm a Democrat. Thank you, George. Mr. Vice President, every day, my wife and I are in disbelief at the lack of coordinated federal action on COVID-19. We know that your administration would follow the science. My question for you, it's two parts. First, looking backwards to when this country first became aware of COVID-19, what would following the science have meant in terms of actual policy? And then, looking forward, what would your administration do in terms of following the science with real concrete policies that haven't been done by the current administration?

BIDEN: Well, first of all, going back, the fact is that the president was informed how dangerous this virus was. And all the way back in the beginning of February, I argued that we should be keeping people in China. And we had set up, in our administration, a pandemic office within the White House. There were 44 people on the ground.

BIDEN: I suggested that we should be seeking, and I didn't hold public office, I was a former Vice President, we in fact asked to have access to the source of the problem. And the best of our knowledge, Trump never pushed that. All those 44 people came home, never got replaced. In addition to that, I pointed out that I thought in February, I did a piece for USA Today saying, "This is a serious problem. Trump denied it. He said it wasn't."

BIDEN: We later learned that he knew full well how serious it was when he did an interview with George Woodward. I mean, excuse me, Bob Woodward. And at the time, he said he didn't tell anybody because he was afraid Americans would panic. Americans don't panic, he panicked. He didn't say a word to anybody.

BIDEN: Then I wrote a piece in March about what I thought we should be doing to take hold of this, using the... There's an act that passed a long time ago that allows the president to go into a business and say, "Stop making this, and start making that." And it took a long time for him to even institute that, to get ventilators and so on. And so, the point was he missed enormous opportunities and kept saying things that weren't true. It's going to go away by Easter, don't worry about it. When the summer comes, it's all going to go away like a miracle. He's still saying those things.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Before you go to the future, can I follow up on the, "I'm looking backwards." just a little bit? You did have an op-ed in January where you warned of the seriousness of the pandemic, but there's no record of you calling for social distancing, limited social gatherings, mandatory mask.

BIDEN: Not back then.

STEPHANOPOULOS: In January, February.

BIDEN: Not in January, February. No, that's correct, there wasn't. That came at the end of March. And then I laid out a detailed plan relative to school openings in June and July. By that time, the science was becoming clearer and clearer of how this was spreading so rapidly. But the president kept denying that. If you notice, from March on, I stopped doing big meetings, I started wearing masks.

BIDEN: So, it was at a time when the science was saying, and his key people, Dr. Fauci were saying, "You should be taking these precautions." So, what we should be doing now, there should be a national standard. Instead of leaving this up to, remember what the president said to the governors, "Well, they're on their own, it's not my responsibility. The governors can do what they need to do, not my responsibility." It is a presidential responsibility to lead, and he didn't do that.

BIDEN: He didn't talk about what needed to be done because he kept worrying, in my view, about the stock market. He worried if he talked about how bad this could be, unless we took these precautionary actions, then in fact, the market would go down. And his barometer of success to the economy is the market.

BIDEN: Thirdly, what we didn't do is, the president had an opportunity to open and allow schools and businesses to stay open if they got the kind of help they needed. So, the Congress passed a couple of trillion dollars worth of help. And what happened was most of that money, a significant portion of that money went to the very wealthiest corporations in the country, didn't get to the mom and pop stores.

BIDEN: So, you had one in five, one in six minority businesses closing. Many of them permanently. People being laid off. And then what happened was, when the first round of money for unemployment, enhanced unemployment went by, he didn't do anything. He didn't do anything. And to the best of my knowledge, and I mean this sincerely, I can't think of, I've been around for a lot of presidents, and you know a lot of presidents in a crisis, I don't ever remember one never calling the House and Senate Republicans, Democrats together.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's look forward a little bit. You said that you would lock down the economy, only if the scientists said it was necessary.

BIDEN: By the way, in the context, would I lock down the economy if science said so? I said I'd follow science. But I don't think there's a need to lock down.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Yeah, but I want to press you on that point. You've been in the Oval Office for eight years with President Obama, he would always say that only the hard to solve problems.

BIDEN: Get there.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What is most likely to happen is, the scientists will disagree. The scientists will disagree with the economist. So the question is, how are you going to decide this? Who are you going to listen to? And how can you can contain the pandemic without crushing the economy?

BIDEN: Well, you can contain the pandemic by being rational and not crush economy. For example, I laid out a plan, how you can open businesses. You can open businesses and schools, if in fact you provide them the guidance that they need, as well as the money to be able to do it. What's happening now is, we know, for example, if you can open a business and you could have a sign on the door saying, "Safe to come in." And that's why people aren't going anyway, when they're open.

BIDEN: And say, because you have social distancing, you have plastic barriers, when you go to the cashier, you have separators between the booths. You don't have large crowds, you reduce the size, the number of people you can have in the restaurant. You make sure there's testing, that's a really critical piece that he didn't do testing and tracing. And you make sure that people are equipped, going to schools.

BIDEN: You know, we initially said, the government initially said, they're going to provide masks for every student and every teacher. Then they said, "No, no, no, no." FEMA said, the president or whomever said, ‘No, no, no. That's not a national emergency, not a national emergency."

BIDEN: We need more teachers in our schools to be able to open smaller pods. We need ventilation systems change. There's a lot of things we know now, and I laid them out in some detail. Now again, when I say I laid them out, I'm not an office holder. I'm running for office. It's not like I'm still Vice President, or I wasn't a United States Senator pushing this.

BIDEN: So, I don't want to say, "I, I, I." But we did lay out exactly what needed to be done. And take a look, we make up 4% of the world's population. We have 20% of the world's deaths. We're in a situation where we have 210 plus thousand people dead. And what's he doing? Nothing. He's still not wearing masks, and so on.

STEPHANOPOULOS: We're getting some other questions on COVID.

BIDEN: Sure.

STEPHANOPOULOS: The next one comes from Kelly Lee. She's from Philadelphia.

BIDEN: Thank you.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Republican. Voted for Donald Trump in 2016.

LEE: I did.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Undecided now.

BIDEN: Hey, Kelly. How are you?

LEE: Hi, Mr. Biden. My question is about the coronavirus vaccine, or potential.

BIDEN: Yes.

LEE: Senator Harris stated that she absolutely would not take a vaccine from President Trump. And of course, we all know it's not President Trump that would create this vaccine. It would be doctors and scientists that presumably we all trust. So, my question for you is if a vaccine were approved between now and the end of the year, would you take it? And if you were to become president, would you mandate that everyone has to take it?

BIDEN: Two things. Number one, President Trump talks about things that just aren't accurate, about everything from vaccines, we're going to have one right away, is it going to happen, and so on. The point is that, if the scientists, if the body of scientists say that this is what is ready to be done, and it's been tested, they've gone through the three phases. Yes, I would take it. I'd encourage people to take it.

BIDEN: But President Trump says things like, everything from this crazy stuff he's walking away from now, inject bleach in your arm, and that's going to work. I'm not being facetious, he's actually said these things. And now, Regeneron is the answer. That's going to cure everything. There's 500,000 doses, we have more than a few million people, you know? And so, if you noticed, most of the companies who are developing these vaccines are working, they're making real progress.

BIDEN: I meet with four leading scientists, at least twice a week. In the beginning, four times a week, giving us the detail on what kind of progress is being made. And right now, they do the right thing. When they run into a serious problem, they halt the test. They don't continue until they figure out what the problem was. They're not there yet.

BIDEN: And the most scientists say, that it's not likely to have a vaccine that would be available until the beginning of next year, into the spring of next year. And in the meantime, what I worry about is the same thing with Regeneron, which is a useful antidote. Not antidote, a useful tool. But what's happening is there was no plan to figure out how to distribute it. We have 500,000 vials of it.

BIDEN: Well, we don't have all the testing equipment. We don't have all the ability to get it to the people who need it. And what we should be doing now, and allegedly it's happening, but I've not seen it yet nor the docs that I've talked to seen it. There should be a plan when we have the vaccine, how do we distribute it?

STEPHANOPOULOS: And once we get it, if it's safe, if it's effective, will you mandate its use?

BIDEN: The answer is, depending on how clear... Vaccines, they say, have a very positive impact and that you're going to affect positively 85% of the American public. Or there's others say, "This vaccine is really the key. This is the golden key." It depends on the state of the nature of the vaccine when it comes out, and how it's being distributed. But I would think that we should be talking about, depending on the continuation of the spread of the virus, we should be thinking about making it mandatory.

STEPHANOPOULOS: How would you enforce that?

BIDEN: Well, you couldn't, that's the problem. Just like you can't enforce measles, you can't come to school unless you have a measles shot. You know, you can't. But you can't say, everyone has to do this, just like you can't mandate a mask. But you can say, you can go to every governor and get them all in a room, all 50 of them as president and say, " Ask people to wear the mask. Everybody knows."

STEPHANOPOULOS: And if they don't? Fines?

BIDEN: And if they don't, no. Not fine. Then I go to every governor, I go to every mayor, I go to every councilmen, and I go to every local official, say, "Mandate the mask." Say, "This is what you have to do when you're out. Make sure you encourage it being done." Look, George, you and I know, and I think you do too as well, the words of a president matter.

LEE: Absolutely.

BIDEN: No matter whether they're good, bad, or indifferent, they matter. And when a president doesn't wear a mask or makes fun of folks like me, when I was wearing a mask for a long time, then people say, "Well, it mustn't be that important." But when a president says, "I think this is very important." For example, I walked in here with this mask, but I have one of the N95 masks underneath it. I left it in my dressing room. Not the dresser, the room I was in before I got here.

BIDEN: And so, I think it matters what we say. And we're now learning that children are getting the virus, not with as serious consequences, but there's been no studies done yet on vaccines for children. So, there's a long way to go, but we can make progress in the meantime and save lives.

BIDEN: And the last point I'll make, if you listen to the head of the CDC, he stood up and he said, "You know, while we're waiting for a vaccine." He held up a mask. "You wear this mask, you'll save more lives between now and the end of the year than if we had a vaccine." It's estimated by every major study done from the University of Washington to Columbia, that if in fact we wore masks, we could save, between now and the end of the year, a hundred thousand lives.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And avoid lock downs?

BIDEN: And avoid lockdown, yes. You don't have to lock down if you're wearing the mask.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's get a question on the economy. Anthony Archer.

BIDEN: Thank you, I hope I answered your question.

STEPHANOPOULOS: ... from Canonsburg, Pennsylvania, it's a suburb of Pittsburgh. Republican.

BIDEN: I know it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Voted for President Trump.

ARCHER: Thank you, George. Thank you, Mr. Vice President. You stated that anyone making less than $400,000 will not see one single penny of their taxes raised.

BIDEN: That's right.

ARCHER: But also, state that you are going to eliminate the Trump tax cuts. The Trump tax cuts reduces taxes for the majority of workers. I would argue, not enough. What is your plan for either extending the tax cuts for the middle-class, or creating a new plan that further reduces those taxes?

BIDEN: I carry this card with me. When I said the Trump tax cuts, about 1.3 trillion of the $2 trillion in his tax cuts went to the top one 10th of 1%. That's what I'm talking about eliminating, not all the tax cuts that are out there. And by the way, if you take a look, we reduced the corporate tax rate from 35%. and Democrats, Republicans who were in office thought it should come down to 28%. He reduced it to 21%.

BIDEN: You have 91 out of the Fortune 500 companies not paying a single solitary penny. If you raise the corporate tax back to 28%, which is a fair tax, you'd raise one trillion, three hundred billion dollars by that one act. If you made sure that people making over 400 grand paid what they did in the Bush administration, 39.6%, you would raise another, it goes up to let me get you the exact number here, about another 200, excuse me. $92 billion.

BIDEN: So, you could raise a lot of money to be able to invest in things that can make your life easier. Make you change your standard of living by making sure you have affordable health care, by making sure you're in a situation where you're able to send your kid to school. If you have student debt, you can deal with it. Making sure that your home, you can pay your mortgage. You got 20 million people, right now.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. Vice President, let me press you on that though.

BIDEN: Sure.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You're going to raise the corporate tax, you're going to raise taxes on the wealthy. Is it wise to do even that when the economy is as weak as it is right now?

BIDEN: Absolutely.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Another 900, 000 people have filed for unemployment.

BIDEN: That's a great question. Moody's did analysis of my detailed analysis of my tax plan and my economic plan. They said, I will, in four years, Moody's Wall Street, said I will create 18.6 million new jobs, good paying jobs, number one. Number two, the GDP will grow by a trillion dollars more than would under Trump, and 7 million more jobs than under Trump.

BIDEN: And the reason is, when you allow people to get back in the game and have a job, everything moves. Everything moves. Right now, you got the opposite. You had, last year during this pandemic, you had the wealthiest billionaires in the world, in the nation, they made another $700 billion. $700 billion. He talks about a V-shape recovery. It's a K shape recovery. If you're on the top, you're going to do very well. And if you're in the bottom, or you're in the middle or the bottom, your income is coming down. You're not getting a raise.

BIDEN: I shouldn't, I don't know what you do. You may get a raise. Hope you're a billionaire. But all kidding aside, it's about growing the economy. And George, the way out, the reason why I'm so optimistic about economic recovery, more than I've ever been, is we have these four crises happening all at once. And one helps the other. For example, we're going to invest a great deal of that money into infrastructure, and to a green infrastructure.

BIDEN: We're going to put 500,000 charging stations on new highways we're building, and all highways we're building. We're going to own the electric market. You know as well as I do from your days, you know, in the old days, where the president spends about $600 billion a year on government contracts. Everything from making sure they have aircraft carriers, to automobile fleets in the United States.

BIDEN: If you make, and it's not in violation of any international trade agreement, made in America. If you actually insist that whatever that product is, made in America, including the material that goes into the product. It is estimated we're going to create somewhere between another four and six million jobs just by doing that.

BIDEN: But what's happening now under his trade policy, a lot of this is going overseas. You get a benefit from going overseas, if you have much of it being made overseas. So, if you send it overseas, you get a 10% tax increase on a product. If you make it in America and you bring it back, you get a 10% growth. If you bring back a company, and you're going to open up an old facility, you get a 10% tax credit for all you invested. That actually works, George.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So, there's not going to be any delay on the tax increases?

BIDEN: No, well. I got to get the votes. I got to get the votes. That's why, the one thing, I have this strange notion. We are a democracy. Some of my Republican friends and some of my Democratic friends, even occasionally say, "Well, if you can't get the votes by executive order, you're going to do something. Things you can't do by executive order, unless you're a dictator." We're democracy, we need consensus.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Got to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

BIDEN: I hope I answered your question.

VOICE: We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. This special edition of 2020 will return in a moment.

VOICE: The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude. From the Constitution Center in Philadelphia here again, George Stephanopoulos.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And welcome back to our town hall with Joe Biden. We're going to get a question now from Cedric Humphrey. He's a student from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Progressive Democrat.

BIDEN: Don't jump, Cedric. You're look like you're way up there.

HUMPHREY: I'll be okay. Thank you, George. And good evening, former Vice President Biden.

BIDEN: Good evening.

HUMPHREY: Many people believe that the true swing demographic in this election will be.

HUMPHREY: Many people believe that the true swing demographic in this election will be Black voters under the age of 30, not because they'll be voting for Trump, but because they won't vote at all. I myself have had this exact same conflict. So my question for you then is, besides "You ain't Black," what do you have to say to young Black voters who see voting for you as further participation in a system that continually fails to protect them?

BIDEN: Well, I'd say first of all, as my buddy John Lewis said, "It's a sacred opportunity, the right to vote. You can make a difference." If young Black women and men vote, you can determine the outcome of this election. Not a joke. You can do that. Then the next question is, am I worthy of your vote? Can I earn your vote? And the answer is, there's two things I think that I care and I've demonstrated I care about my whole career. One is, in addition to dealing with a criminal justice system to make it fairer and make it more decent, we have to be able to put Black Americans in a position to be able to gain wealth, generate wealth. And so you look at what that entails.

BIDEN: It entails everything from early education, that's why I'm supporting making sure that Title One schools, as you know, schools with the least tax base to be able to support their schools, I increased the funding from them from $15 to $45 billion. That allows every teacher in that school to make up to 60,000 bucks, and the problem now is they're leaving the schools. They're not there. We're short about a million and a half teachers, a million and a quarter teachers.

BIDEN: Number two, every three and four and five-year-old will go to school, school, not daycare, school, and with all the great universities, including the one you've gone to, go to, or went to, in fact, talks about in the last eight years, what's happened. What happens when you let them go to school? They make up rapidly whatever shortcoming they had in terms of their education prior to that. They have not heard as many words spoken, et cetera, et cetera. What happens is that, the studies show, that 58% will increase by 58% their chance of going all through 12 years of school, and going through successfully. It will also provide for the ability to bring in social workers and school psychologists. We have one school psychologist in America now for every 1,507 kids. It should be one to 500, not just in schools that are poor, but in all schools, because we learned that, for example, drug abuse doesn't cause mental illness, mental illness causes drug abuse, the failure to get hold of people and deal with their anxieties.

BIDEN: In addition to that, I provide for a $70 billion for HBC use for them to be able to have the wherewithal to do what other universities can do, because they don't have the kind of foundational support they need. And so that would allow them, for example, like we did in our administration, the President allowed me to go down and we awarded a cybersecurity laboratory, ability to compete for cybersecurity laboratory. The federal government spends billions of dollars a year on universities, because there are the best kept secret and where most of the major inventions come out of. And so that school now will be able to produce young Black women and men who are going to go into a field of the future that's burgeoning, cybersecurity. And that's what is going to help a great deal.

BIDEN: In addition to that, if you're a young man about to graduate and you graduated from school and you want to own your first home, well, it's awful hard to get the money, depending on the background, where your economic background is, to get a down payments. So we're going to guarantee first term home buyers a $15,000 down payment for first term home buyers. In addition to that, all the studies now show, and I've been arguing this for a long time, is young Black entrepreneurs are just as successful as White entrepreneurs or anyone else given a shot. But you can't get the money. Where do you go to get the startup money? So what President Obama and I did, we had a program where we took $1.5 billion and we invested it in all the SBAs around the country, and the state SBAs, small business associations, and that generated $30 billion came off the sideline.

BIDEN: Because if you have a guarantee of $200,000 for your new startup enterprise, a young entrepreneur, you're going to be able to attract, if it's government money and it's a guarantee, you could be able to attract another $100,000. It generated $30 billion. Well, I'm changing that program and I'll get this done without much trouble I believe in the Congress from $1.5 million to $30 billion. That'll take $300 billion off the sideline and grow. And, for example, if you, in fact, and I were the same age and we split our differences, if we were the same age, and we went to the same builder to buy us each the same home, but my home was in a White neighborhood on one side of a highway, and yours is in a Black neighborhood, same exact home, your home will start off being valued 29% less than my home. Yet your insurance for that home will be higher. You'll be taxed more for it. We've got to end this. That's what got me involved in politics in the first place, a thing called red lining.

BIDEN: We can change so much that we can do so much to change the circumstances to give people a real opportunity.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Cedric. Is that right? Did you hear what you needed here?

HUMPHREY: I think so.

BIDEN: Well, there's a lot more if you're going to hang around afterwards. I'll tell you more.

HUMPHREY: Okay.

BIDEN: No, but I really mean it. It's the key. Look, this is the way every other ... Like my dad, he lost his job up in Scranton and it took him three years to be able to move down to Delaware, to Claymont, Delaware, a little steel town, and send us home to our grandpop to live with him. We finally got back. We lived in an apartment, which became six and eight housing much later. It was just normal apartments. But it took him five years to be able to buy a home. Well, we bought a three bedroom home with four kids and a grandpop living with us, but it accumulated wealth. You built up wealth. That's how middle-class folks make it. They build up wealth. Then he was able to borrow a little against that to be able to help us get the school, those kinds of things. It's about accumulating wealth and you're behind an eight ball. The vast majority of people of color are behind an eight ball.

BIDEN: And it's the same way what's going on now with all this money that's been voted. What's happened? You go to the bank, if you're a Black businessman, and the President fired the only Inspector General to see oversee all this help coming from the Congress. And what happens? You go in and they say, "Ah, do you have an account here?" "No." "Do you have a credit card?" "No." "Have you borrowed from us before ?" "No." We bailed these suckers out. They're not liable for any of the money, but they still won't lend it to you. We've got to change that. It's about accumulating wealth.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I want to get another question in here from Angelica Politarhos.

BIDEN: I'm sorry.

STEPHANOPOULOS: No, not at all. Garnet Valley, Pennsylvania.

POLITARHOS: Hi.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Republican who voted for President Trump last time.

POLITARHOS: Thank you. Thank you, George. Thank you, Vice President Biden. Nice to meet you. What's your view on the Crime Bill that you wrote 1994, which showed prejudice against minorities? Where do you stand today on that?

BIDEN: Well, first of all, things have changed drastically. That Crime Bill, when it voted, the Black Caucus voted for it. Every Black mayor supported it across the board and the Crime Bill itself did not have mandatory sentences except for two things. It had three strikes and you're out, which I voted against, in the Crime Bill, but it had a lot of other things in it that turned out to be both bad and good. I wrote the Violence Against Women Act. That was part of the assault weapons ban and other things that were good. What I was against was giving states more money for prison systems that they could build, state prison systems. And you have 93 out of every 100 people in jail now is in a state prison, not in a federal prison, because they built more prisons.

BIDEN: I also wrote into that bill a thing called drug courts. I don't believe anybody should be going to jail for drug use. They should be going into mandatory rehabilitation. We should be building rehab centers to have these people housed. We should decriminalize marijuana, wipe out the record so you can actually say honesty, "You ever been arrested for murder for anything?" You can say no, because we're going to pass a law saying there is no background that you have to reveal relative to the use of marijuana. And so there's a lot of things. But in addition to that, we've got to change the system. I joined with a group of people in the House to provide for changing the system from punishment to rehabilitation. Along with a guy named Marlon Specter, who you may remember, I wrote the Second Chance Act.

STEPHANOPOULOS: In the meantime, an awful lot of people were jailed for minor drug crimes after the Crime Bill.

BIDEN: Right.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Was it a mistake to support it?

BIDEN: Yes, it was. But here's where the mistake. The mistake came in terms of what the states did locally. What we did federally, we said, you remember, George, it was all about the same time for the same crime. What I had done as the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, I took the 10 Circuit Courts of Appeals, took some really brilliant lawyers working for me in Judiciary, we did a study and we determined what happens if, for the first, second, third offense for any crime in the criminal justice system at the federal level, if you're a Black man and it's the first time you've committed robbery, how long would you go to jail? On average? If you're White man, how long? The Black man would go to jail on average 13 years. White man, two years. I'd go down the list of every single crime.

BIDEN: So we set up a sentencing commission. We didn't set the time. Every single solitary maximum was reduced in there. But what happened was it became the same time for the same crime. So it said, "You have to serve between one and three years." And it ended up becoming much lower, Black folks went to jail a lot less than they would have before. But it was a mistake.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me ask another follow-up on the Crime bill. It also funded 100,000 police back in 1994. You've often said that more cops clearly mean less crime. Do you still believe that?

BIDEN: Yes, if in fact they're involved in community policing, not jump squads. For example, when we had community policing, from the mid-'90s on until till Bush got elected, what happened? Violent crime actually went down precipitous. Remember the significant rise in violent crime that was occurring in the late '80s into the '90s. It went down and fewer African Americans were arrested because you had the requirement. The cops didn't like it. They didn't like the community policing, because you had to have two people in the vehicle, they had to get out of their cars, they had to introduce themselves to who own the local liquor store, who owned the local grocery store, who was the woman on the corner. And what they would do, George, they'd actually go and give people their phone numbers. A cop would give the phone number.

BIDEN: So if Nelly Smith was on the second floor where drug deals took place and things happened below her apartment, she could call and say, "It's Millie, and there's something going on here." And they'd never revealed it was her, because they'd know, if she knew that, in fact, they report, they'd never report the crime, she'd never report. So it actually started to come down. And what happened? They eliminated the funding for community policing. Community policing doesn't mean more people coming in, in armored Humvees and swarming. It turned out that by the time we got to the late '90s and crime had come down so much, the mayors and everybody asked the question, "Where do you want me to spend the money?" They say, "Well, only 1% thought violent crime was a problem." It was as high as 22%.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Right now we have a systemic problem. How do you get the kind of policing, prevent the kind of policing .

BIDEN: You have to change the way in which they . One of the things I'm going to do, George, is what is set up a national study group made up of cops, social workers, as well as made up of the Black community and the Brown community to sit down in the White House and over the next year come up with significant reforms that need to take place within communities. You have to bring them together. One of the things I've observed is, the neighborhood I grew up, I grew up in Claymont, you either became a cop, a firefighter, or a priest. I wasn't qualified much to do any one of them, but here's the deal, all kidding aside. Most cops don't like bad cops.

POLITARHOS: Correct.

BIDEN: They don't like it.

POLITARHOS: That's correct.

BIDEN: And so what happens is they get intimidated into not reporting. So one of the things we do is there has to be transparency available. We have to be able to go in at the federal level, be able to go in and check out whether or not there's systematic problems within police departments. If, in fact, a cop needs to be tried, it's not the prosecutor in the community, in the district there. You've got to go outside the community to get another prosecutor to come in to handle the crime. There's a lot of things we've learned, and it takes time but we can do this. You can ban choke holds, but beyond that, you have to teach people how to de-escalate circumstances. De-escalate. So instead of anybody coming at you and the first thing you do is shoot to kill, you shoot them in the leg. There's ways you have to do more background checks in terms of whether or not the person coming in, passes a certain psychological test.

BIDEN: And the last thing I'll say, and I'm sorry, but it's really, I think, really, really important, is you have to be in a position where you are able to identify, identify the things that have to change. And one of the things that has to change is so many cops get called into circumstances where somebody is mentally off. Like what happened not long ago, that guy with the knife. That's why we have to provide within police departments psychologists and social workers to go out with the cops on those calls, some of those 911 calls to de-escalate the circumstance, to deal with talking them down. But cops are kind of like school teachers now. A school teacher has to know everything from how to handle hunger in a household as well as how to teach how to read. Well, cops or don't have that breadth, and there's a lot of things we can do. We shouldn't be defunding cops. We should be mandating the things that we should be doing within police departments and make sure there's total transparency.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Got to take another quick break. We'll be right back.

BIDEN: I don't know the answer to your question.

SPEAKER: He shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Judges of the Supreme Court, and all other officers of the United States. From the Constitution Center in Philadelphia, here again, George Stephanopoulos.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And the Supreme Court is our next topic. The questioner, Nathan Osburn of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Democrat.

OSBURN: Hi, I'm George and Mr. Vice President.

BIDEN: Hey, Nathan.

OSBURN: Our country's first Supreme Court gave its first ruling is just two blocks from here from 1791 to 1800, and it's become more polarized since then. Merrick Garland didn't get a hearing for all of 2016 and Amy Coney Barrett is being pushed through at the last minute, even though millions have already voted. So what do you think about ideas from people like Pete Buttigieg and others to put in place safeguards that will help ensure more long-term balance and stability? And what do you say to LGBTQ Americans and others who are very worried right now about erosions of their rights and our democracy as a whole?

BIDEN: Well, let me start at the last point and work my way back. I think there's great reason to be concerned. I was on the road most of the time during these hearings so I didn't hear many of them. I just got the recaps when I'd get in late at night. I'm been going around the country, Florida, anyway, but my reading online what the judge said was she didn't answer very many questions at all. And I don't even think she is laid out much of a judicial philosophy in terms of the basis upon which she thinks in the Constitution, nonetheless. So, number one. So I think there's great reason to be concerned for the LGBT community, something I fought very hard for, for a long time to make sure there's equality across the board.

BIDEN: Number two, I think that also healthcare overall is very much in jeopardy as a consequence of the President's going to go directly after this election directly to the Supreme Court within a month to try to get Obamacare wiped out after 10 million people have already lost her insurance from their employer and wants to take 20 million people out of the system as well, plus 100 million people with pre-existing conditions. So there's a lot at stake. I don't think it's appropriate. I think the Constitution implies, there's no provision in the Constitution, my problem is I made a mistake of teaching constitutional law for 21 years, and the separation of powers, the Constitution implies that their way the people have a right to determine who's going to be on the court is how they vote for their Senators and their President. We seek the advice and consent of the Senate. And the President.

STEPHANOPOULOS: The President is President for all four years, isn't he?

BIDEN: He is. But once an election begins, by implication, it is inconsistent with the constitutional principles, in my view. You get disagreement among scholars on this, but I believe it's inconsistent when millions of people have already voted to put someone on the Court. I think it should have been held until this election is over, see what the makeup of the Senate is going to be. If the President wins this election, he should be able to go for it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But how about that question of expanding the court? Here's what you said exactly one year ago tonight at a Democratic debate. You said, "I would not get into court packing. I would not pack the court." That's not what you're saying now. Is the nomination of Judge Barrett reason enough to rethink your position?

BIDEN: What I wanted to do, George, you know if I had answered the question directly then all the focus would be on, what's Biden going to do if he wins? Instead of on, is it appropriate what is going on now? And it should stay. This is the thing that the President loves to do, always take our eye off the ball what's at stake. One of the things Pete has suggested is, and there's a number of constitutional scholars have suggested as well, that there are at least four or five options that are available to determine whether or not you can change the way in which the court lifetime appointment takes place consistent arguably with the Constitution. I have not been a fan of court packing because then it just generates what will happen. Whoever wins, it just keeps moving in a way that is inconsistent with what is going to be manageable.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you're still not a fan?

BIDEN: Well, I'm not a fan. It depends on how this turns out. Not how he wins, but how it's handled, how it's handled. But there's a number of things that are going to be coming up and there's going to be a lot of discussion about other alternative as well.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What does that mean, how it's handled? How will that determine .

BIDEN: For example, there's actually real live debate on the floor, if people are really going to be able to have a time to go through this. I don't know anybody who's gone on the floor that's been a controversial justice in terms of making fundamentally or altering the makeup of the court that's gone through in a day kind of thing. I mean, it depends on ...

BIDEN: ... and the makeup of the court has gone through in a day kind of thing. I mean, it depends on how much they rushed this. And you think about it, George, here you got a lot of people not to be able to pay their mortgage, not being able to put food on the table, not being able to keep their business open, not being able to do anything to deal with what's going on in terms of the economy as a consequence of COVID and they have no time to deal with that, but they have time to rush this through.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, right now it looks like they're going to have a vote around Halloween. So if they vote on it, for the election. If they vote on it before the election, you are open to expanding the court?

BIDEN: I'm open to considering what happens from that point on.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, you said so many times during the campaign, all through the course of your career, it's important to level with 

BIDEN: It is. Good choice. No matter what answer I gave you, if I say it, that's the headline tomorrow. It won't be about what's going on now, the improper way they're proceeding.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But don't voters have a right to know where you stand?

BIDEN: They do have a right to know what I stand and they'll have a right to know where I stand before they vote.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you'll come out with a clear position before election day?

BIDEN: Yes. Depending on how they handle this. But look, what you should do is you got to make sure you vote and vote for a senator who in fact reflects your general view on constitutional interpretation, and vote for a president who thinks is more in line with you. And if you oppose the position that I would not have appointed her, but if you oppose my position, vote for Trump, vote for Republican who shares that view, but that's your opportunity to get involved in lifetime appointments that have presidents come and go, justices stay and stay and stay.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You have a question from a Republican, Andrew Lewis. I would guess a disaffected Republican. You cast a write-in vote for John Kasich in 2016. You're going to vote against President Trump this year.

BIDEN: John's writing in for me, by the way.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I know that.

BIDEN: I'm sorry.

LEWIS: Mr. Vice President, my father Drew Lewis served as secretary of transportation under President Ronald Reagan in his first time.

BIDEN: Oh yeah, I'll be darned.

LEWIS: And some of his closest allies and friends were Democrats, including House Speaker Tip O'Neill and Senator Ted Kennedy. Sadly, today we have highly partisan and dysfunctional governance. And I believe President Trump is primarily responsible for creating this toxic environment. As president, how will you avoid the temptation to exact revenge and instead take the high road and attempt to restore bipartisanship, civility, and honor to our democracy?

BIDEN: It was written by a fellow who won the Pulitzer prize for a book he wrote about the presidency. He said I doubt whether Biden is really Irish. He doesn't hold a grudge. In politics, grudges don't work. They make no sense. I really mean it. I have never, and the second point I'd make is everybody talks about, "Yeah, Joe, when you were a senator and a chairman of foreign relations or chairman of judiciary, you got a lot of things done. You're able to cross the aisle but the days are changed. When you're vice president, you got a lot done, but it can't happen anymore." It can. We got to change the nature of the way we deal with one another. And it starts off by the way your father was and Tip was and others. You don't question another man or woman's motive. You can question their judgment, but not their motive. We badly needed an infrastructure bill.

BIDEN: Well, what happens? I stand up and I say, "We need an infrastructure bill, Senator, but I tell you what, you're in the pocket of the cement industry, but let's see what we can do." He can't get anywhere. Nothing happens. Nothing happens. I learned that lesson a long time ago. I've never, even when it's obvious on its face what the motive is, stick to the subject and listen to the other guy. Listen, what I will be doing as, if I'm elected president and the first thing and not a joke. And you can ask if they'd tell you, your dad's old friends in the Republican side, I'm going to pick up the phone and call them and say, "Let's get together. We've got to figure out how we're going to move forward here."

BIDEN: Because there's so many things we really do agree on. And with Trump out of the way, the vindictiveness of a president going after Republicans who don't do exactly what he says gets taken away. There's going to be, I promise you, between four and eight Republican senators who are going to be willing to move on things where there's bipartisan consensus. Last example I'll give you. After Trump had been elected, named the next president, wasn't sworn in yet, I've been working on a thing called a bill relating to cancer cures. Okay? And it was called the Cancer Moonshot. And I work with a number of Democrats and Republicans. And we had a bill that was about $9 billion that made significant increases in research and development on cancer alternatives, NIH and particularly specific cancer initiatives. And we only had at the time I think it was 111 or 114, whatever it was, votes in the house. I don't hold any exact number.

BIDEN: And we had fewer than 40 in the Senate, but after he was elected, I got those people together as vice president and we sat down and we worked it out and we ended up getting a pass 396 votes in the house and 94 votes in the Senate. And at the end of the day, because it had to do with the Biden Cancer Moonshot I've been working on, Mitch McConnell. Mitch McConnell stood up and I was presiding officer and moved to name the bill after my deceased son, Beau, who had just died. So, there are ways to bring this together.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But how about the question of political accountability? Is there some tension between that and bringing people together? Robert Mueller laid out a lot of evidence of possible obstruction of justice by President Trump. What would a Biden Justice Department do with that evidence?

BIDEN: What the Biden Justice Department will do is let the Department of Justice be the Department of Justice. Let them make the judgments of who should be prosecuted. They're not my lawyers. They're not my personal lawyer.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So, you're not going to rule it in or rule it out?

BIDEN: I'm not going to rule in or out. Well, I'm going to hire really first rate prosecutors and people who understand the law like Democrat and Republican administrations have had, and let them make the judgements, but turning this into a vehicle for your, as if it's your own law firm, you don't own that justice department. You pick the best people you can and you hope that what they're going to do is they're going to enforce the law as they see it. But can you remember any Republican president going out there or former Democratic president go find that guy and prosecute him? Remember, where you hear that? Or by the way, I'm being sued because a woman has accused me of rape. Represent me. Represent me. Personally represent me in the state of New York on my not allowing my tax returns. What's that all about? What is that about?

STEPHANOPOULOS: Got to take another break. We'll be right back.

SPEAKER: The executive power shall be vested in a president of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years and together with the vice president chosen for the - From the constitution center in Philadelphia, here again, George Stephanopoulos.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And welcome back to our town hall with Former Vice President Joe Biden. We're going to look at the environment right now. We're going to get a question from Michele Ellison and from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, businesswoman, a social worker. You're a Republican who's voted for Democrats, but you're not sure what you're going to do this time around. Correct?

ELLISON: Correct. Greetings Former Vice President Biden.

BIDEN: Hello.

ELLISON: Thank you, Mr. Stephanopoulos. In a 2012 report of the University of Pittsburgh's Institute of Politics fracking was discussed and it is possible implications for the waterways from the Commonwealth to the gulf. Fracking has made the population sick and killed wildlife in Southwest Pennsylvania. The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and small business development centers have already begun to transition people away from fossil fuels. What industries that are not harmful to human health and the environment are you planning for Southwest Pennsylvania and the nation?

BIDEN: Well, first of all, I make it clear. I do not propose banning fracking. I think you have to make sure that fracking is in fact not emitting methane or polluting the well or dealing with what can be small earthquakes in how they're drilling. So, it has to be managed very, very well, number one. Number two, what we have to do is the future rests in renewable energy. The single fastest growing energy source in the world right now, because I'm going to say something that's going to sound self-serving, but I manage the RecoveryAact and I was able to invest billions of dollars into bringing down the cost per BTU of wind and solar. So now it's cheaper than coal, is cheaper than oil right now, and it has great, great promise. And it's also the fastest growing employer in the energy industry.

BIDEN: And so there are a number of things that I would do immediately. Number one, there are well over 100,000 wells that are left uncapped in the region. We could hire 128,000 of these people who are working in the industry to cap these wells and get a good salary doing it now, number one. Number two, we should be moving toward finding the new technologies that are going to be able to deal with carbon capture. So, ultimately, it's a transition we moved from, to a net zero emission of carbon that we're still going to be able to use if we find the right technology, some gases, some gas to be able to, if we can carbon capture.

BIDEN: And I think we're going to be able to move in a direction where by the year 2035, we'll be able to have net zero emissions of carbon from the creation of energy, energy creation so we can move it by dealing with those. And every time we talk about global warming or the environment, the president thinks it's a joke and I think as jobs, because what we're going to have happened is you'll be able to see now, as I started to say before. I as president is going to invest that $600 billion that we spend in government contracts, only on those things that in fact also are not only made in America, but building an infrastructure that's clean and new.

BIDEN: And what we have to do is focus on the transmission of energy across the country from areas relating to solar and wind. The reason is that they have not, that has not been mastered yet. I met a lot of people in Silicon Valley. The battery technology is increasing significantly so you're going to be able to have, for example, solar on your home and a battery the, this by this by this, as I'm showing you here in your basement. So when the sun doesn't shine for five days, you still have enough energy. So, we're making significant progress.

BIDEN: The other thing we're going to do is provide an awful lot of work. It's estimated to put close to a million people to work by weatherizing four million buildings and two million homes, because we'll save tons and tons of energy or billions of barrels of energy over time. And at the same time provide significant employment and a good union wages, prevailing wages.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me stick on fracking for a second day. You said you don't want to ban fracking. As you know, it's an important issue here in Pennsylvania. Not everyone buys your denial. A member of the Boilermakers Local 154 Shawn Steffee was quoted in the New York Times today saying "You can't have it both ways." It says, "You can't meet your goal to end fossil fuels without ending fracking." What do you say to people like Shawn who doubt your denial because they think you want to keep that promise ?

BIDEN: Boilermaker's overwhelming endorsement. Okay? So, the Boilermakers Union has endorsed me because I sat down with them and went in a great detail with leadership exactly what I would do, number one. Number two, what I would do is I would giving tax breaks and subsidizing oil. We don't need to subsidize oil any longer, number one. We should stop that and save billions of dollars over time. What I would also do with regard to there's no, the difference between me and the new green deal, they say automatically by 2030 we're going to be carbon free. Not possible.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So, are you for or against it? You say you're not for it, but in your website, it says you call it a crucial framework, the green deal.

BIDEN: My deal is a crucial framework, but not the new green deal. The new green deal calls for elimination of all non renewable energy by 2030. You can't get there. You're going to need to be able to transition, George, to be able to transition to get to the place where we invest in new technologies that allow us to do things that get us to a place where we get to net zero emission, including in agriculture. I've laid out a detailed plan. We should be taking the plan where we allow significant more land to be put in conservation, plant deep rooted plants which absorb carbon from the air and in fact, pay farmers to do it. We can do things like pelletize all the chicken manure and all the horse manure and cow manure, and take out the methane and use it as fertilizer and make a lot of money doing it.

BIDEN: For example, right now, down in ... And people when I say that, they wonder what I'm talking about. The biggest carbon sink in the world is the Amazon. More carbon absorbed from the air diminishing global warming in the Amazon than all the carbon emitted on a yearly basis from the United States of America from all vehicles on all means. So we have to use our imaginations. We have to move in the direction as well providing for electric vehicles. Electric vehicles will save billions of gallons of oil, estimated, not me, Wall street, one million automobile jobs, but we're lagging me. I mean, we're not investing. We're not doing any of the research.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Got to take another quick break. We'll be right back. Welcome back to our town hall with Former Vice President Joe Biden. The next question comes from Mark Hoffman, Center Valley, Pennsylvania, conservative, who voted for Trump in 2016.

HOFFMAN: Welcome to Pennsylvania, Mr. Vice President.

BIDEN: Good to be back home. I'm from Pennsylvania.

HOFFMAN: Yes, I know. Scranton, right?

BIDEN: Yep.

HOFFMAN: So, pieces breaking out all over the world. Our troops are coming home. Serbia is talking to Kosovo and the Arabs and Israelis are talking peace which I believe is a modern day miracle what's going on. Does President Trump's foreign policy deserves some credit?

BIDEN: A little more, but not a whole lot. We find ourselves in a position where we're more isolated in the world than we've ever been. Our allies.

BIDEN: Were more isolated in the world than we ever have been. Our allies... Our go it alone, our America first has made America alone. You have Iran closer to having enough nuclear material to build a bomb. North Korea has more bombs and missiles available to it. We find ourselves where our NATO allies are publicly saying they can't count on us. We're in a situation as well, where in the far East, we find ourselves, in the Western Pacific, where we're isolated as well. You have Japan and South Korea at odds with one another. China is making moves. So I would say, we're find ourselves less secure than we've been. I do compliment the president on the deal with Israel recently. But if you take a look, we're not very well trusted around the world. When 17 major nations in the world were asked who they trust more, who's a better leader, and the president came in behind both, the international survey, both behind Putin, as well as Xi. And look what Putin is doing. You have bounties on American militaries heads in Afghanistan. They have more people there now, by the way, than when we left in Afghanistan. And we find ourselves in a situation where he's talked to Putin six times, hadn't said a word to him. And NATO is on the risk of beginning crack because they doubt whether we're there. You see what's happened in everything from Belarus to Poland, to Hungary, and the rise of totalitarian regimes in the world. And as well as, this president embraces all the thugs in the world. He's best friends with the leader of North Korea, sending love letters.

BIDEN: He doesn't take on Putin in any way. He's learned the art of the steal from the art of the deal by Xi and China. So I would respectfully suggest, no, there is no plan, no coherent plan for foreign policy. We've been most effective as a world leader, in my humble opinion, not just by the exercise of our power. We're the most powerful nation in the world, but the power of our example. That's what's led the rest of the world to follow us on almost everything. He's pulled out of almost every international organization. He gets laughed at, literally, not figuratively, when he goes to the United Nations. It's not about the president, per se. It's about the nation and the lack of respect that's shown to us.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Want to get one more question in this segment, and it comes from Mieke Haeck. She's from State College, Pennsylvania. This is your first presidential election that you're vote in.

HAECK: It is.

BIDEN: Hi, Mieke. How are you?

HAECK: I'm good. Thank you. I'm the proud mom of two girls, 8 and 10. My youngest daughter is transgender. The Trump administration has attacked the rights of transgender people, banning them from military service, weakening non-discrimination protections, and even removing the word transgender from some government websites. How will you, as president, reverse this dangerous and discriminatory agenda and ensure that the lives and rights of LGBTQ people are protected under US law?

BIDEN: I will flat out just change the law. Eliminate those executive orders, number one. You may recall, I'm the guy who said... I was raised by a man who, I remember, I was being dropped off. My dad was a high school educated, well-read man who was a really decent guy. And I was being dropped off to get an application in the center of our city, Wilmington, Delaware, the corporate capital of the world at the time. I'm getting out to get an application to be a lifeguard in the African-American community, because there was a big swimming pool complex.

BIDEN: And these two men, well-dressed, leaned up and hugged one another and kissed one another. I'm getting out of the car at the light, and I turned to my dad. My dad looked me. He said, "Joey, it's simple. They love each other." The idea that an 8 year old child or a 10 year old child decides, "I decided I want to be transgender. That's what I think I'd like to be. It'd make my life a lot easier." There should be zero discrimination. And what's happening is too many transgender women of color are being murdered. They're being murdered. I think it's up to, now, 17. Don't hold me to that number, but it's... It's higher now?

HAECK: Yeah.

BIDEN: And that's just this year. And so I promise you, there is no reason to suggest that there should be any right denied your daughter, or daughters, whichever, one or two.

HAECK: One.

BIDEN: One. Your daughter, that your other daughter has a right to be and do. None. Zero. And by the way, my son Beau, who passed away, was the attorney general of the state of Delaware. He was the guy who got the first transgender law passed in the state of Delaware. And because of a young man who became a woman, who worked for him in the attorney general's office.

STEPHANOPOULOS: We've got one more segment coming up. Thank you.

BIDEN: And I'm proud of her.

STEPHANOPOULOS: We'll be right back.

SPEAKER: The vice president and the people, a special edition of 2020. Here again, George Stephanopoulos.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And welcome back to our town hall with former Vice President Joe Biden. The next question comes from Keenan Wilson, Narberth, Pennsylvania, Democrat.

WILSON: Good evening. You say that you committed to entering this race after the events of Charlottesville in 2017. I assume that that feeling that prompted you to run will not go away once the results are determined. So hypothetically, if you lose, how will you use your platform to urge President Donald Trump, and those rallying behind him, towards the ideals of a more perfect union?

BIDEN: Well, to be very honest with you, I think that's very hard. Things have not let themselves to him learning from what's happened, what's gone before. Instead of being chastened by being one of the few presidents, the only president to be impeached and then have a member of his own party vote to expel him, it emboldened him. But what I will do... Hopefully, I'll go back to being a professor at the University of Pennsylvania. And making the case that I've been made, and at the Biden Institute at the University of Delaware, focusing on these same issues, relating to what constitutes decency and honor in this country. It's the thing that got me involved in public life to begin with. As a kid, I'd moved from Scranton, where there were no African-Americans and moved down to Claymont, Delaware.

BIDEN: And in Delaware we have the eight largest Black population, as a percent of population. It was an epiphany for me seeing what was going on, and I got deeply involved. I'm no great shakes. I wasn't John Lewis. I don't mean to imply that. But it's the thing that's motivated... My dad used to have an expression for real. He said, "Everyone's entitled to be treated with dignity. Everybody." And it was real. Everybody is. And so whether I'm a defeated candidate for president back teaching or I'm elected president, it is a major element of everything that I'm about, because it reflects who we are as a nation.

BIDEN: Every single solitary generation, the dial has moved closer and closer and more and more to inclusion. And we are a country that is a country of slaves who came here 400 years ago, Indigenous people, and everyone else is an immigrant. And we're a diverse country. And unless we are able to treat people equally, we're just never going to meet our potential. But I think the American people want to see that happen. I think they're ready to see it happen. And I'd tell you one thing, if I'm elected president, you will not hear me race baiting. You'll not hear me dividing. You'll hear me trying to unify, and bring people together. When I said I was running because I wanted to unify the country, people said, "Well, there are the old days." We better be able to do it again.

WILSON: Agreed.

BIDEN: We'd better be able to do it again.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. Vice President, if you lose, what will that say to you about where America is today?

BIDEN: Well, it could say I'm a lousy candidate, and I didn't do a good job. But I hope that it doesn't say that we are as racially, ethnically, and religiously at odds with one another as it appears the president wants us to be. Usually, the president's in my view, with all due respect, has been divide and conquer. The way he does better if he splits us. There's division. And I think people need hope. Look, George, I've never been more optimistic about the prospect for this country than I am today. And I really mean that. I think the people are ready. They understand what's at stake, and it's not about Democrat or Republican. If I get elected, I'm running as a proud Democrat, but I'm going to be an American president. I'm going to take care of those who voted against me, as well as those who voted for me, for real. That's a presence too. We got to heal this nation, because we have the greatest opportunity to any country in the world to own the 21st century. And we can't do it divided.

STEPHANOPOULOS: One more break. We'll be right back. And we are wrapping up our town hall with former Vice President Joe Biden. Mr. Vice President, as you know, President Trump had a town hall meeting tonight, as well. During that town hall meeting, he was asked several times whether he took a COVID test the day of your last debate. You're supposed to have another debate a week from tonight. Just two quick questions. Do you expect that debate to happen? Will you demand that President Trump take a test that day and that it be negative before you debate?

BIDEN: Yeah. And by the way, before I came up here, I took another test. I've been taking them every day, the deep test, the ones that go in most. Because if I had not passed that test, I didn't want to come here and expose anybody. And I just think it's just decency, to be able to determine whether or not you're clear. I'm less concerned about me, but then the guys with the cameras, the people working in the Secret Service guys you drive up with, all those people. And so, yes, I believe he will do that. Look, I'm going to abide by what the commission rules call for. I was prepared to debate him remotely, which was supposed to happen. And he said he wouldn't do that, a virtual debate, or a town hall. He didn't want to do that. I didn't set those rules. The commission set the rules. So whatever rules they set, I'm confident that the Cleveland Clinic is the one overseeing it. I think they're going to not let happen what happened last time. They're going to demand that it's safe.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But you expect to be there?

BIDEN: I expect to be there.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. Vice President, thank you for your time tonight. Thanks to all the questioners here. It was really terrific questions. I think you did a service to our democracy tonight. Thank you very much. I want to go back to my colleague, David Muir, in New York.